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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:20 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Choice.

A Pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before the statue of Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition that we do not point our feet towards Shiva". The Pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir if you will point to where Shiva is not".

This neatly sums up the difference between TA and NA.

TA has conditions which have to be met including practise.

NA has no conditions that have to be met including practise.

Feel free to choose whatever suits you
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2017, 12:56 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
A Pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before the statue of Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition that we do not point our feet towards Shiva". The Pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir if you will point to where Shiva is not".

This neatly sums up the difference between TA and NA.

TA has conditions which have to be met including practise.

NA has no conditions that have to be met including practise.

Feel free to choose whatever suits you

Realization of this is not a condition. Hearing this the seeker may resonate with that idea:)

I doubt if those who believe in realization would regard resonance as equivalent but lets see:)
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:24 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Duplicate threads:

Agreement

Neo-Advaita

Non-Duality and the Guru

etc.
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:28 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
A Pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before the statue of Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition that we do not point our feet towards Shiva". The Pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir if you will point to where Shiva is not".
LOL :) <3 <3 <3

It is said, in our faith, we must be respectful when worshiping Shiva, we must come after bathing, wearing our finest garments, speak low, softly, come in the spirit of humility...yada...yada...

I worship Shiva totally naked, covered in ash and shout "Hara Hara Mahadev!" dancing about ecstatically.

There is no place Shiva is not, but by the same token, it ain't like He hasn't seen our toes, the soles of our feet...nor our bare bottom, genital regions...He is responsible for all of that...so what is there to hide? what is there to be humble about? what is there to disrespect? What is there to question? to even have to think about?

I love that tale you told and thank you...it has opened my heart a bit more today.
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:31 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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A prior, related post:

*Links underlined*

I do understand why so called "NA" tries to set up a NA v "Anyone else" context as - either: it's because TA is jealous of us! - or it's West v East - or it just depends on your personality to the probably most honest answer I have seen in my viewpoint: NA suits people who are tired of being told they are not good enough and want self assurance that they have, without any work on their part, "arrived") - and most recently, [color="Blue"]anger at the tried and tested way - the wish to dethrone (lol renegade!) + NA is a rebellion against the "totalitarian" regime of Advaita-Vedanta (whoah that's a new one!) + we need to defend ourselves against the mad persecution of Advaita-Vedanta and other dangerous traditionalists.


Because that gives them, like e.g. a Church of Scientology, an assumption of legitimacy and equivalence. There is no equivalence, however in my opinion (rationale below), and why it should be seen at best as a dabbling exercise. Furthermore, its utility is diminished not only through its stature as a relative imposter, in my opinion, but in the rare admission that its followers have fundamentally not found true joy, compassion or Gnosis evident in so many other traditions. This is only to be expected in such a course.

Here's a prior post of mine which encapsulates how I see this topic (below). I hope you find it useful to understand my perspective (and hopefully this time you will not try to again incite the Board and forum participants to try to cast me as an abuser - quite a dishonest and unkind tactic IMO - in your desperate attempts to shut down discussion and review.

Be well

Quote:
I think to imagine that it is a West v East or TA v NA issue or Traditionalist v Modern context is incorrect, and merely takes the bait {sort of like the #fakenews #alternativefacts context - there are no alternative facts, period, to discuss it is to acknowledge that which isn't accurate in the first place, a clever play}

This is certainly not an issue of West or East or Traditional Advaita-Vedanta v Neo-Advaita or popularity more v less.

To imagine it is is to have taken that particular bait, in my opinion. The key, fundamental difference is really are the teachings as promulgated genuine and fulsome spiritual teachings or not? i.e. Do they advance the highest teachings/Truths found in a number of religions: Buddhism, Sufism, Advaita-Vedanta, mystical Christianity, Daoism etc.

There is no mindset of popularity, culture or religion here, IMO. You have to remember that Advaita-Vedanta and many other religions co-exist very peacefully and harmoniously; some would say co-operatively too - you help him and I will help her and we will meet at the same place out there, beyond these categories - high five!

The only reason that this so called Neo-Advaita issue is being responded to is because it is simply a shallow imitation of any genuine spiritual tradition, and it is baited to attract the simple minded, ignorant, or those that just don't know, and yet are {sincerely} looking for some spiritual guidance. Unfortunately its effects range from long term ignorance (given that it does not actually generate meaningful deep insights) to more corruption (such as when some people think that they don't, or perhaps other people, don't 'really' exist, and/or All is One anyway so 'whatever' I do is fine) i.e. the mental cognition of the insight of genuine teachers cannot help but be nigh inevitably corrupted in its original intention.

You see, what is so tricky and pseudo-smart about the so-called NA writings is that they utilize some "truths" discovered in (let's use for this example) Advaita-Vedanta, and also piggy back off the same terminology. So, to the untrained eye and heart, it has semblances of truth in it.

To piggy back off Jyotir's example of Paris, they describe the sights of the Eiffel Tower (having piggy backed off of the travellers' actual journey) using similar words, they can describe the bridges, the people, the vibrant taste of its cuisine {mmm croissants!!} and so parts of it could be true {if it were really true}.

But this remains very different to the actual reaching of said destination, which is what the original Adepts did reach and used words to "hint at" and best {within the capacity of words, which is inherently limited} provide a flavor of the possible.

Furthermore, it goes beyond a trip in that the transformation and journey cannot help but change the individual - sort of like the characteristics of a genuine pilgrim, who is forged in and through the fires of Truth/Search - there is a distinctively different taste and flavor in such people experientially and also through their insights and spiritual development.

As you know the spiritual tradition is nothing but a journey back to Source (which no-one has left, but which still requires some effort to deeply realize and manifest).

Neo-Advaita is nothing but a forgery in that regard, stunting the very people it could have helped, by promulgating views such as there is nothing to do, nothing to realize. By short-circuiting the very search, journey and practice that leads people to these inner realizations and experiences, it belies the very intention, depth and authenticity of the original Adepts/Masters' sharings.

In Zen there is a saying: "Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."

No-one in Zen graduates without years of intensive practice, lifelong practice and yet the destination is inevitably sweet because the realizations are the fruition of the work that was put in.

Finally, Iamit's own discourse shows another level of conceit in that it attracts people who are "tired of being told they are not good enough". It suits personalities who are perhaps tired and older and want to feel that things are enough. I definitely sympathize with that, and wish such people well. There is no need for anyone to feel unworthy and I also have never seen that message in any other tradition - but people obviously interpret messages differently. Iamit also mentioned suffering still exists - well, compare that to the Adepts

So anyway, in conclusion, the classification and context of discussion is not a "versus" - whether that's people, culture, modernity, or religion, as Iamx would like to put it, it's a simple case of fraudulent activity masking as the real deal. That is the pertinent point and pivot of discussion. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but at least people deserve to know - hey this ain't Europe!

BT
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:39 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
LOL :) <3 <3 <3

It is said, in our faith, we must be respectful when worshiping Shiva, we must come after bathing, wearing our finest garments, speak low, softly, come in the spirit of humility...yada...yada...

I worship Shiva totally naked, covered in ash and shout "Hara Hara Mahadev!" dancing about ecstatically.

There is no place Shiva is not, but by the same token, it ain't like He hasn't seen our toes, the soles of our feet...nor our bare bottom, genital regions...He is responsible for all of that...so what is there to hide? what is there to be humble about? what is there to disrespect? What is there to question? to even have to think about?

I love that tale you told and thank you...it has opened my heart a bit more today.

"so what is there to hide? what is there to be humble about? what is there to disrespect? What is there to question? to even have to think about?"

Practise apparently:)
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:44 AM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
"so what is there to hide? what is there to be humble about? what is there to disrespect? What is there to question? to even have to think about?"

Practise apparently:)
That being said, if you have to think about practicing, you're not practicing.

Despite what myself or anybody else says on here in any way/shape or form, Shiva has totally stolen my heart! and that's something I don't need to think about or question either. It just is...what it is...Brahman or no Brahman...duality or no duality....all that doesn't matter or make any difference to it.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2017, 04:32 PM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
A Pilgrim travelled to the temple and stood before the statue of Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition that we do not point our feet towards Shiva". The Pilgrim replied "Certainly Sir if you will point to where Shiva is not".

This neatly sums up the difference between TA and NA.

TA has conditions which have to be met including practise.

NA has no conditions that have to be met including practise.

Feel free to choose whatever suits you

It’s too late. The seeker is already practicing - even those who insist that they are not. If you are a seeker, you are practicing. Your practice may consist of attending Tony Parsons (and others) meetings, buying books and watching YouTube videos - oh, and posting on forums. This is a 21st century sadhana (whether or not it is effective is another matter.)
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:13 PM
Iamit Iamit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondance
It’s too late. The seeker is already practicing - even those who insist that they are not. If you are a seeker, you are practicing. Your practice may consist of attending Tony Parsons (and others) meetings, buying books and watching YouTube videos - oh, and posting on forums. This is a 21st century sadhana (whether or not it is effective is another matter.)

There is a difference between seeking and practising.

Seeking may merely be considering all that is on offer to see what suits them if any.

That consideration may result in selecting a practise, or an idea that involves no practise whatsoever of which, as far as I know, there is only one, popularly and affectionately known as NA :) :) :)
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2017, 11:45 AM
Moondance Moondance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There is a difference between seeking and practising.

Seeking may merely be considering all that is on offer to see what suits them if any.

That consideration may result in selecting a practise, or an idea that involves no practise whatsoever of which, as far as I know, there is only one, popularly and affectionately known as NA :) :) :)
The ‘no practice whatsoever’ approach still entails the application of an idea - involving meetings, books, videos, listening, consideration, reflection etc.
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