Want to become a Christian but...

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Persnickety

I understand what Christians say about the important of salvation and the burden of sin but that knowledge doesn't get me to God, it only gets me to wanting to know God and so far that's as far as I've got.

Well, that is a good start. God has revealed himself through his creation. One evidence of his existence is the existence of life. Life is too complex to have come into existence by chance. Many people believe in evolution because they don't want to admit that there is a God. If you want to understand the creation from a biblical perspective I recommend that you go to answersingenesis.org. They provide a lot of evidence from creation that shows that God exists.

God has also revealed himself through the Bible. I suggest you study it and ask God to help you understand it. If you have questions about it a good site to find answers in carm.org.

God reveals himself to those who are prepared to obey him. In John 7:17 Jesus made this promise: "If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by theophilus

Well, that is a good start. God has revealed himself through his creation. One evidence of his existence is the existence of life. Life is too complex to have come into existence by chance. Many people believe in evolution because they don't want to admit that there is a God. If you want to understand the creation from a biblical perspective I recommend that you go to answersingenesis.org.

God has also revealed himself through the Bible. I suggest you study it and ask God to help you understand it. If you have questions about it a good site to find answers in carm.org.

God reveals himself to those who are prepared to obey him. In John 7:17 Jesus made this promise: "If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

The atheist response theophilus is that Christians are ignorant of science. That over the millions of years, evolution occurred.
I have no problem with that myself.
Thing is, they will ignore Einstein's statements on space and time and other findings of theoretical physics.

That, the universe is fundamentally made up of information, math and equation.

Creation, or The Universe has a beginning, apparently.
Which is why time exists, related to motion. The Wachowski's illustrated things beautifully I thought
allowing one to conceptualize the truth.

Christians in general however haven't recognized and embraced this realization.
So, in any debate atheists will talk about the length of time it took for evolution to have occurred.
What the many don't recognize is that time is insignificant compared to the greater situation of eternity, infinity, or the timeless. The greater reality and truth.

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Morpheus is wrong about Grace being unmerited favour, that's just fairly tail stuff of this world

Just find God your own way
Dont worry about people going on about beliefs
My advice - listen to worship music eg hillsong etc but remember keep an open mind as to what is going on

David
I am curious as to why you say this and how you envision Grace.

Originally Posted by Persnickety

Long story cut very short, I feel I need a higher power in my life, Christianity seems a good bet for a number of reasons but I'm struggling to mentally buy into the supernatural. I'm not convinced by any of the apologetic arguments for God and I haven't had an identifiable, subjective experience of God. How do I do this?

Persnickety, IMO, is not a bad thing to be. The exactness of religious dogma can be a hard thing to wrap one's head around without giving up ones God given right to follow ones own mind wherever its facts may seem to lead. Every religion has its Scribes and Pharisees preaching orthodoxy and discipline to the flock. Unfortunately, God is impossible to capture in words or thoughts and so the dogma they preach and enforce, is often the very thing that prevents the faithful from having that subjective experience of God that you seek. I have found that for me it works much better to read about the teachings of Jesus, wherever they are said to be found, and contemplate their meaning for myself. One can be a follower of Jesus and his teachings without needing to call themselves a Christian.

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by ketzer

David
I am curious as to why you say this and how you envision Grace.

well i should say that i said it in that way because if you don't say anything a bit over the top there's no discussion on forums and you get ignored!

What i mean is to say Grace is 'unmerited favour' risks, or actually does, cheapen the concept of Grace by reducing it to the lowest common denominator. so its selling it short is what i feel by failing to encompass it's majesty. i for sure do like to argue over the definitions of things when they seem to do harm to what they're supposed to be describing

Follow the path of Love and try and increase it.
God is there.

Originally Posted by davidmartin

well i should say that i said it in that way because if you don't say anything a bit over the top there's no discussion on forums and you get ignored!

What i mean is to say Grace is 'unmerited favour' risks, or actually does, cheapen the concept of Grace by reducing it to the lowest common denominator. so its selling it short is what i feel by failing to encompass it's majesty. i for sure do like to argue over the definitions of things when they seem to do harm to what they're supposed to be describing

LOL, yes, and when one does say something over the top they still might not get discussion, just get yelled at for being crazy and dangerous.

So how do you envision grace?

[davidmartin]

Grace is beautiful concept no doubt about that!
I don't like 'unmerited favour' its like giving someone a present then telling them they don't deserve it.
it actually makes no sense and the best they could come up with is a bone dry definition like that, well... i'd worry that might annoy God, he goes to great lengths to save people and then they do something like that!

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Persnickety, IMO, is not a bad thing to be. The exactness of religious dogma can be a hard thing to wrap one's head around without giving up ones God given right to follow ones own mind wherever its facts may seem to lead. Every religion has its Scribes and Pharisees preaching orthodoxy and discipline to the flock. Unfortunately, God is impossible to capture in words or thoughts and so the dogma they preach and enforce, is often the very thing that prevents the faithful from having that subjective experience of God that you seek. I have found that for me it works much better to read about the teachings of Jesus, wherever they are said to be found, and contemplate their meaning for myself. One can be a follower of Jesus and his teachings without needing to call themselves a Christian.

ketzer,

I agree with everything you said with one exception. And that is your first sentence. IMO 'persnickety' has connotations of being judgmental and less than open-minded. If this is true in any way it will have a way of drawing one's attention to the shortcomings of Christianity rather than its attributes. I particularly liked your advice to concentrate and contemplate the teachings of Jesus. That is the heart and soul of genuine Christianity and manmade dogmas are, in a way, the antithesis of Christianity. Dogmas and doctrine are the acceptance of the deliberations of someone other than one's self. And for truth to be truth it must be your one personal truth. This involves trusting your own intuition and believing that intuition itself is a grace of God.

In regards to the church experience itself one must remember that any church is well populated with sinners and hypocrites. My advice to the poster is to look for those in the church that radiate love, forgiveness and understanding. And to silently forgive those that do not demonstrate those characteristics......they still have a long way to go to enter the narrow gate and you should not judge your own progress by comparing it to others.

Another point: the poster gave indication that meditation was not proving productive for him/her. I would caution that this is an indicator of wrong expectations. The goal of meditation, IMO, is to present yourself before God and make a conscious effort to completely still your mind from thoughts. View as time devoted to God certainly without expectations of some direct revelation from God. God will accept the openness of meditation and work as a physician to effect your healing. The success of meditation is intended to be made apparent over time and in ways that one might not expect. Personally I believe a genuine meditation practice has a sufficiency of its own. It might even be the invisible hand that leads one to the right book, the right scripture or the right person. One cannot underestimate its importance. It is the one thing that could work for a man in the wilderness....away from books, scriptures, people, churches, etc. It is the provision that God makes for accessing His Spirit.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Persnickety

I'm struggling to mentally buy into the supernatural.

Can you tell us why you have an issue with things unseen?
Thanks.