A frightening experiment in love...

I believe many people here on the forum, already take this approach
with seeing people as the same. As in made from the same Loving
essence deep down at their core.
With all the same spiritual potential.
I often say if I had walked in their shoes I may be exactly where they are.
Which allows me to see or extend mercy.

But I like talking about Love and loving people, since I always
like seeing how others practice it.

I know little about (cbt)

Originally Posted by JosephineBloggs

I Googled "beautiful mushrooms" What a beautiful planet we have.

Oh, you aint kidding.
I am always in AWE.

[jojo50]

Originally Posted by TannersHatch

Hi
I'm new. I'm pleased to meet you.

welcome! love to see your many future comments!

[TannersHatch]

Originally Posted by jojo50

welcome! love to see your many future comments!

That kind of you :)
I've kind of exited for a bit...fallen back into old failures so not worthy at the moment to join back in.
I'll get there, and will look forward to coming back to improving myself.
Much love to you all brothers and sisters x

[TannersHatch]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I believe many people here on the forum, already take this approach
with seeing people as the same. As in made from the same Loving
essence deep down at their core.
With all the same spiritual potential.
I often say if I had walked in their shoes I may be exactly where they are.
Which allows me to see or extend mercy.

But I like talking about Love and loving people, since I always
like seeing how others practice it.

I know little about (cbt)

I know what you mean and hope one day to be strong enough to practise what so many here live as an example. Nice to find a community such as this with so many to aspire to be like. Regardless I find joy in the success of my spiritual siblings. Even if I fail I find hope in your successes and the resulting inadequacy only serves to help me find hope.
Thanks for the comment :) I'll keep smiling.

Ooh here's a cool thing..... Israel (the name given to Joshua) means those who wrestle with god. ....as the story in which he wrestled with god for a day and, ahem, won.
If gods people (the Israelites) are those who wrestle with god then that gives me hope. Because I do so daily.

Ok sorry but your answer has produced a rant....and again I'm jumping from one topic to another...

Can I share an analogy I cling to?
I imagine myself as a toddler on the beach, with my father holing my hand as I struggle to walk over the stones. No matter how much I falter and stumble my father will never let go and never lose patience. I feel his hand in mine no matter how often I fail and know he will never let go.
It keeps me trying. It helps me carry on despite my own shame and failure.
I love my father, and I love you all.
Keep stumbling guys and gals. It's all gonna be ok.
I just hope I have the time left..

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by TannersHatch

But I stopped, used a bit of CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) and tried to remember that they were me.

And it worked. It really worked.

Can I share an analogy I cling to?
I imagine myself as a toddler on the beach,

Thanks for you post it reminds me of what I have done a bunch of times. I didn't know anyone else had done such things. I've never known how to describe it. I came up with the idea of method acting to explain it once. I use my imagination too. But then it's more than method acting and cognitive b-therapy too I'd assume. But who knows, maybe actors really good at method acting actually perceive the world through that characters eyes. It's like you take an idea, something from spirituality for example, and you choose to make it real, own it, internalize it, actualize it. Then boom, your perception totally changes. Everything totally changes. Inside, outside, everything. One time I did it, I heard actual voices of spirits. Just like if a person was there, but I was alone. Another time was a bit of a "bad trip" as the idea I decided to experience was that all thought/talking was made by the brain, not consciousness. Well I did the technique, while I was driving a car with a bunch of relatives in the car, and then boom, it became reality. People were talking in the car and I instantly lost all relationships with them. They were like unconscious robots talking, repeating whatever their brains were coming up with, it felt terrible. I felt so alone. I got scared thinking what if I'm stuck in this perception/reality? This is terrible! Then luckily I snapped out of it back to a normal perception. I had some pretty profound insights, visions, and experiences/perceptions from doing it in various ways too. Now some variation of it is my daily practice when I have the energy.

Mine is somewhat similar to your loving all, seeing all as equal, and even has some of your toddler on the beach stuff though this part to me is more of a surrender to the divine, that is pervading all, and the other concentration point is selflessness. I've done variations of it, like while being in some nature place without signs of modern times, I imagine I got teleported to 10,000 years in the past. Then it's about feeling, knowing, experiencing what that would have actually been like for that person. See/experience through their eyes/being/consciousness. It's really hard to explain because it starts out as an idea, then imagination is used somehow, then eventually if your concentration and focus is complete, you become that somehow. You actually become a different type of consciousness and have the corresponding experience/perception.

It really is an odd thing. Somebody posted about a guru on these forums that was doing something similar for retreats and he was raking in millions as rich people are into it. Though I watched some of his videos and I don't think anything good was coming from it. It seemed to be like self hypnosis. Beliefs change experience and the more you believe, the more real the experiences. Like where somebody is hypnotized to think an onion is an apple and they eat the onion like it is an apple. They experience it as an apple. But that is not about a change in total perception/being like we are talking about.

I don't think what we are doing or did is self hypnosis. It's more like we have various ways to be available to us, as humans, and certain ways to be have corresponding perceptions. So we are just finding some of these potentials through these techniques. Getting to them by actualizing ideas. Like loving all in your case and mine is... well I can't really put it into words well but loving all, seeing all as the same is part of the perception that comes with it.

[TannersHatch]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Thanks for you post it reminds me of what I have done a bunch of times. I didn't know anyone else had done such things. I've never known how to describe it. I came up with the idea of method acting to explain it once. I use my imagination too. But then it's more than method acting and cognitive b-therapy too I'd assume. But who knows, maybe actors really good at method acting actually perceive the world through that characters eyes. It's like you take an idea, something from spirituality for example, and you choose to make it real, own it, internalize it, actualize it. Then boom, your perception totally changes. Everything totally changes. Inside, outside, everything. One time I did it, I heard actual voices of spirits. Just like if a person was there, but I was alone. Another time was a bit of a "bad trip" as the idea I decided to experience was that all thought/talking was made by the brain, not consciousness. Well I did the technique, while I was driving a car with a bunch of relatives in the car, and then boom, it became reality. People were talking in the car and I instantly lost all relationships with them. They were like unconscious robots talking, repeating whatever their brains were coming up with, it felt terrible. I felt so alone. I got scared thinking what if I'm stuck in this perception/reality? This is terrible! Then luckily I snapped out of it back to a normal perception. I had some pretty profound insights, visions, and experiences/perceptions from doing it in various ways too. Now some variation of it is my daily practice when I have the energy.

Mine is somewhat similar to your loving all, seeing all as equal, and even has some of your toddler on the beach stuff though this part to me is more of a surrender to the divine, that is pervading all, and the other concentration point is selflessness. I've done variations of it, like while being in some nature place without signs of modern times, I imagine I got teleported to 10,000 years in the past. Then it's about feeling, knowing, experiencing what that would have actually been like for that person. See/experience through their eyes/being/consciousness. It's really hard to explain because it starts out as an idea, then imagination is used somehow, then eventually if your concentration and focus is complete, you become that somehow. You actually become a different type of consciousness and have the corresponding experience/perception.

It really is an odd thing. Somebody posted about a guru on these forums that was doing something similar for retreats and he was raking in millions as rich people are into it. Though I watched some of his videos and I don't think anything good was coming from it. It seemed to be like self hypnosis. Beliefs change experience and the more you believe, the more real the experiences. Like where somebody is hypnotized to think an onion is an apple and they eat the onion like it is an apple. They experience it as an apple. But that is not about a change in total perception/being like we are talking about.

I don't think what we are doing or did is self hypnosis. It's more like we have various ways to be available to us, as humans, and certain ways to be have corresponding perceptions. So we are just finding some of these potentials through these techniques. Getting to them by actualizing ideas. Like loving all in your case and mine is... well I can't really put it into words well but loving all, seeing all as the same is part of the perception that comes with it.

Thank you for your reply. see, this is what i mean....the struggle i experience i can relate to in your message. it really spoke to me, like i speak to myself somehow. it reminds me that you and me are in essence are going through the same experience. the same pain. the same confusion. Your comment helped me. Your will to relate helps me.

I think, in my ignorance, that we...you, me and all of us particularly in a forum such as this are dealing with a duplicity of meaning (that sounds wrong)....let me put it this way...
I have always found meaning in focusing inward (at least for the most part). To self examine. To constantly look at ourselves which, of course promotes meaning and misery. If you constantly self criticise then shame and hurt is (at least for me) a key drive. But a path which is bordered with disappointment, as I/we can perhaps never find or want to find an end to such Self-deprecation.
And why would we? Because in anything other than a 'Christ like' experience (which we can never hope to attain) there is no meaning to be had without the struggle.
The other option is to judge outwardly. And in that lies a narcissistic superiority and euphoria, which i cant judge but struggle to relate to.

I choose suffering. But I am just struggling with the concept of acceptance of my own inadequacy without negating responsibility. Its a difficult blur and I suspect wrong. A cop-out. But I know all these experiences have brought me closer to who I experience myself to be and my acceptance of my failure to be who i hoped I would be. Accepting my emotional imprint. accepting struggle as a beautiful part of it all and being thankful for it.

Im thankful for you Phaelyn. Thank you. Im proud of you and the piece of me I see in you and your reaching out to me.
Goodnight brother

[TannersHatch]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Thanks for you post it reminds me of what I have done a bunch of times. I didn't know anyone else had done such things. I've never known how to describe it. I came up with the idea of method acting to explain it once. I use my imagination too. But then it's more than method acting and cognitive b-therapy too I'd assume. But who knows, maybe actors really good at method acting actually perceive the world through that characters eyes. It's like you take an idea, something from spirituality for example, and you choose to make it real, own it, internalize it, actualize it. Then boom, your perception totally changes. Everything totally changes. Inside, outside, everything. One time I did it, I heard actual voices of spirits. Just like if a person was there, but I was alone. Another time was a bit of a "bad trip" as the idea I decided to experience was that all thought/talking was made by the brain, not consciousness. Well I did the technique, while I was driving a car with a bunch of relatives in the car, and then boom, it became reality. People were talking in the car and I instantly lost all relationships with them. They were like unconscious robots talking, repeating whatever their brains were coming up with, it felt terrible. I felt so alone. I got scared thinking what if I'm stuck in this perception/reality? This is terrible! Then luckily I snapped out of it back to a normal perception. I had some pretty profound insights, visions, and experiences/perceptions from doing it in various ways too. Now some variation of it is my daily practice when I have the energy.

Mine is somewhat similar to your loving all, seeing all as equal, and even has some of your toddler on the beach stuff though this part to me is more of a surrender to the divine, that is pervading all, and the other concentration point is selflessness. I've done variations of it, like while being in some nature place without signs of modern times, I imagine I got teleported to 10,000 years in the past. Then it's about feeling, knowing, experiencing what that would have actually been like for that person. See/experience through their eyes/being/consciousness. It's really hard to explain because it starts out as an idea, then imagination is used somehow, then eventually if your concentration and focus is complete, you become that somehow. You actually become a different type of consciousness and have the corresponding experience/perception.

It really is an odd thing. Somebody posted about a guru on these forums that was doing something similar for retreats and he was raking in millions as rich people are into it. Though I watched some of his videos and I don't think anything good was coming from it. It seemed to be like self hypnosis. Beliefs change experience and the more you believe, the more real the experiences. Like where somebody is hypnotized to think an onion is an apple and they eat the onion like it is an apple. They experience it as an apple. But that is not about a change in total perception/being like we are talking about.

I don't think what we are doing or did is self hypnosis. It's more like we have various ways to be available to us, as humans, and certain ways to be have corresponding perceptions. So we are just finding some of these potentials through these techniques. Getting to them by actualizing ideas. Like loving all in your case and mine is... well I can't really put it into words well but loving all, seeing all as the same is part of the perception that comes with it.

Thank you for your reply. see, this is what i mean....the struggle i experience i can relate to in your message. it really spoke to me, like i speak to myself somehow. it reminds me that you and me are in essence are going through the same experience. the same pain. the same confusion. Your comment helped me. Your will to relate helps me.

I think, in my ignorance, that we...you, me and all of us particularly in a forum such as this are dealing with a duplicity of meaning (that sounds wrong)....let me put it this way...
I have always found meaning in focusing inward (at least for the most part). To self examine. To constantly look at myself/ourself which, of course promotes meaning and misery. If you constantly self criticise then shame and hurt is (at least for me) a key drive. But a path which is bordered with disappointment, as I/we can perhaps never find or want to find an end to such Self-deprecation.
And why would we? Because in anything other than a 'Christ like' experience (which we can never hope to attain) there is no meaning to be had without the struggle.
The other option is to judge outwardly. And in that lies a narcissistic superiority and euphoria, which i cant judge but struggle to relate to.

I choose suffering. But I am just struggling with the concept of acceptance of my own inadequacy without negating responsibility. Its a difficult blur and I suspect wrong. A cop-out. But I know all these experiences have brought me closer to who I experience myself to be and my acceptance of my failure to be who i hoped I would be. Accepting my emotional imprint. accepting struggle as a beautiful part of it all and being thankful for it.

Im thankful for you Phaelyn. Thank you. Im proud of you and the piece of me I see in you and your reaching out to me.
Goodnight brother

[TannersHatch]

Originally Posted by TannersHatch

Thank you for your reply. see, this is what i mean....the struggle i experience i can relate to in your message. it really spoke to me, like i speak to myself somehow. it reminds me that you and me are in essence are going through the same experience. the same pain. the same confusion. Your comment helped me. Your will to relate helps me.

I think, in my ignorance, that we...you, me and all of us particularly in a forum such as this are dealing with a duplicity of meaning (that sounds wrong)....let me put it this way...
I have always found meaning in focusing inward (at least for the most part). To self examine. To constantly look at ourselves which, of course promotes meaning and misery. If you constantly self criticise then shame and hurt is (at least for me) a key drive. But a path which is bordered with disappointment, as I/we can perhaps never find or want to find an end to such Self-deprecation.
And why would we? Because in anything other than a 'Christ like' experience (which we can never hope to attain) there is no meaning to be had without the struggle.
The other option is to judge outwardly. And in that lies a narcissistic superiority and euphoria, which i cant judge but struggle to relate to.

I choose suffering. But I am just struggling with the concept of acceptance of my own inadequacy without negating responsibility. Its a difficult blur and I suspect wrong. A cop-out. But I know all these experiences have brought me closer to who I experience myself to be and my acceptance of my failure to be who i hoped I would be. Accepting my emotional imprint. accepting struggle as a beautiful part of it all and being thankful for it.

Im thankful for you Phaelyn. Thank you. Im proud of you and the piece of me I see in you and your reaching out to me.
Goodnight brother

Ha.....and then i re-read what i write and think.....what a pretentious prat :)
but that's part of it to i guess.

Im really not as serious as all that, or as wordy, or as deluded. But if you guys can accept someone as confused and weak as I am...then im grateful for it.

Man....you gotta laugh eh?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by TannersHatch

I choose suffering. But I am just struggling with the concept of acceptance of my own inadequacy without negating responsibility. Its a difficult blur and I suspect wrong. A cop-out. But I know all these experiences have brought me closer to who I experience myself to be and my acceptance of my failure to be who i hoped I would be. Accepting my emotional imprint. accepting struggle as a beautiful part of it all and being thankful for it.

people think the exact attitude one has toward life is somehow momentous. It isn't, it is more like cooking you put in the ingredients you prefer and make something spiced specially for yourself... although you can easily choose attitudes that don't serve well... e.g. add poisons to the broth.

Personally I think you are making a good choice here though. Staying on the down side, pushing on despite all the things that say to me to stop, has served me well and I hope it will for you too.