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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #11  
Old 28-12-2014, 07:37 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by jonesboy
It does because it is a system of practices. If you do A, B will happen in a safe manner. Personal experience after personal experience attest to the system. You may notice on the AYP forum many people go there to get help with kundalini issues.

And people go there and leap into the pranayama with out the required balances, too.

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The difference between you and I is that I will tell someone if they are combing or confusing two methods. You will just say keep going.

For instance:

Someone saying they are staring at a candle and then just observing whatever arises is not meditating.

It is a way of meditation, and a sound practice.

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You told the guy good job.

Yep. It is good.

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I told the guy about the two methods and the systems they were each a part of to check out.

Hell, maybe I am an "expert"

You or I don't know what the feller needs, but he does, and he was doing what suited him as he chose to. I understand stuff like that so would never butt in and distract, but rather, I recognise the intent was clear and all was already good.
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  #12  
Old 28-12-2014, 07:59 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Originally Posted by Cmt12
People get off track because they follow their emotions. They look for a meditation technique that makes them feel better and if it does, then they decide that technique is correct.

Yep. Good point.

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Increasing quality of life is the end goal, but you don't get there by letting your emotions lead you. You get there by seeking truth, by connecting to your intuition and working to remove that which is disconnecting you. This requires an increasing amount of suffering.

That is very often the case. Good point.

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That is the challenge: only those that are willing to listen to the soft whisper instead of loud shouting (Intuition over ego), only those that resist temptation at the expense of the real prize (resisting short term emotional impulses), only those willing to suffer and destroy parts of themselves are "worthy", only those willing to connect to faith over certainty.

Id use the term 'trust' rather than 'faith' because meditation isn't a belief as in 'a faith'.

I would also steer clear of terminology such as 'destroy parts of self' because it seems to imply an adversity toward aspects of the persona, but there may be certain issues that become resolved, and adversity is usually one of them.

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If someone is willing to do what is required, then meditation technique takes care of itself. The most important thing is to not proceed down a path unless you have examined that it is true. For every step you take, you need to turn around and scrutinize it over and over looking for falsity. I've progressed because my process of accepting truth is so extensive. What I post on this forum has already been rejected many times over and has withstood the test of time. You develop a feel for intuition through experience but I've always gone above and beyond just to be sure; even when I felt comfortable accepting something as true, I was still patient. You must be PRECISE.

I think if the intention is pure the intuition will be a reliable guide, so in the first instance, honestly inquiring into 'why' one really wants to meditate will reveal the nature of the intent.

I think your suggestion of examining the veracity of things and also identifying fallacy is the king pin of the subject. Truthfulness is the bottom line with this one.

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This is the real value in meditation - examining yourself so you can better recognize truth. The ironic thing is in this pursuit of better equipping yourself to progress in Spiritual Development, you are actually developing spiritually and walking the path. The examination is the solution.

The thing is you don't gain clarity on the entire process until you've reached the end. If Spiritual Dev is a 100 foot journey, clarity about the purpose, the procedure, or if the path even exists doesn't come until you've gone 99 feet. It's supposed to be like this, supposed to be difficult and based on faith.

Again, I'd find 'trust' more appropriate and not 'faith' like blind faith. but dang, I liked your post!
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  #13  
Old 28-12-2014, 08:05 PM
wstein wstein is offline
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Originally Posted by jonesboy
But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
You may notice on the AYP forum many people go there to get help with kundalini issues.

The difference between you and I is that I will tell someone if they are combing or confusing two methods. You will just say keep going.
I don't know your history but can surmise you got in 'trouble' apparently from 'bad' advice or encouragement.

I understand your desire to prevent whatever happened to you from happening to others. For sure there are a lot of people out there flapping their gums perhaps meaning well but not really knowing what they are talking about. It's unfortunate, its something I try to shine the light on myself. I also recognize and accept that they are where they are on their 'path' or on their journey. They go the way they go, that is not for anyone else to say.

However, your situation is not like everyone else's situation. I did not have any guidance at all. There were no methods available to follow, no gurus, institutes, no books, and no guides. I had two choices, explore on my own or deny my spiritual nature. You can call exploration 'making it up on my own', probably correctly. I discovered many of those 'truths' taught in various systems on my own. I also know that most don't. Still I don't see any problem with going at it alone. My concern is when people try to put their stuff on others. It doesn't matter to me if it has hundreds of years of vetted history or if they made it up two seconds ago.

I feel your pain.
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  #14  
Old 28-12-2014, 08:30 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Wstien,

Thank you but nope no bad advice was given to me :) quit the contrary.

My concern is with someone being able to progress as fast and as safe as they can. I will try to help them with there method. If they don't have one I recommended several schools of thought.

Make no mistake. Spiritual practices are the real deal and you can mess yourself up bad. The Internet is filled with people having real life issues with premature crown openings or a premature kundalini awakening.

I don't want those things to happen. You are saying good luck!
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  #15  
Old 28-12-2014, 08:43 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstein
I don't know your history but can surmise you got in 'trouble' apparently from 'bad' advice or encouragement.

I understand your desire to prevent whatever happened to you from happening to others. For sure there are a lot of people out there flapping their gums perhaps meaning well but not really knowing what they are talking about. It's unfortunate, its something I try to shine the light on myself. I also recognize and accept that they are where they are on their 'path' or on their journey. They go the way they go, that is not for anyone else to say.

I wonder if that 'where they are on their journey' isn't a bit patronising. I gives me a feeling of wsteins on the high place and has to 'accept them on their journey'.

Quote:
However, your situation is not like everyone else's situation. I did not have any guidance at all. There were no methods available to follow, no gurus, institutes, no books, and no guides. I had two choices, explore on my own or deny my spiritual nature. You can call exploration 'making it up on my own', probably correctly. I discovered many of those 'truths' taught in various systems on my own. I also know that most don't. Still I don't see any problem with going at it alone. My concern is when people try to put their stuff on others. It doesn't matter to me if it has hundreds of years of vetted history or if they made it up two seconds ago.

I feel your pain.

Interesting path description.

I did start meditation on my own, and there came a time I thought I should get some formal instruction, so I did. After good while, I decided to put that behind me and go into a new chapter again, so kept up a pretty good practice and feel OK about it.

The other aspect is the kindness which is extended, and it's always been in my nature, so I naturally tend toward human service and also wish well for all of nature. I feel ok about feelings of uncertainty within myself and other people, and have found that moving ahead is always wrought with uncertainty, but I also trust in myself and others that taking this step will be OK, and it's utmostly important that people are self determined and find their own way. It can be a difficult thing to not interfere and coerce decisions, but doing so is disempowering and it works a lot better to lend a hand without influencing the direction and enabling decisions rather than suggesting them. Only very rarely is more intervening necessary if a persons choices are very harmful or the person's decisive ability is incapacitated.
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  #16  
Old 28-12-2014, 09:08 PM
Cmt12 Cmt12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Wstien,

Thank you but nope no bad advice was given to me :) quit the contrary.

My concern is with someone being able to progress as fast and as safe as they can. I will try to help them with there method. If they don't have one I recommended several schools of thought.

Make no mistake. Spiritual practices are the real deal and you can mess yourself up bad. The Internet is filled with people having real life issues with premature crown openings or a premature kundalini awakening.

I don't want those things to happen. You are saying good luck!
If you were aware of how much physical pain I have been in over the last several years of my life, you would say I have made a mistake according to this perspective.

Conventional wisdom says that this physical pain is an error calling it spiritual emergency, Kundalini Syndrome, and so on. But there is no going where I am going without going through it. Those people that view it as a mistake, do you think it is their Intuition telling them that or their ego?
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  #17  
Old 28-12-2014, 09:23 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Cmt12
If you were aware of how much physical pain I have been in over the last several years of my life, you would say I have made a mistake according to this perspective.

Conventional wisdom says that this physical pain is an error calling it spiritual emergency, Kundalini Syndrome, and so on. But there is no going where I am going without going through it. Those people that view it as a mistake, do you think it is their Intuition telling them that or their ego?

I am more concered with the now. How have you progressed? Do you still have physical pain? What is your current practice?
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  #18  
Old 28-12-2014, 10:44 PM
Everly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
This post of yours is why no one. I mean nobody should listen to you.I am not trying to be a jerk but anybody with a little experience in reading :) in history can understand how wrong you are.Again, not trying to be mean just saying... Stop.

Are you serious? What a load of pure, unadulterated, egotistical ****. Who the heck do you think you are, to tell someone else, who has nothing but good intentions, to stop? Your ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance.

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Originally Posted by jonesboy
By saying so you are showing your lack of depth and experience.

This is laughable. You don't know the depth and breadth of Gem's experiences and neither to do I. I agree with most of Gem's thoughts, opinions and ideas about meditation, and I'll put up my depth of experience against yours any day.

It's a preposterous notion to claim that "a system" of meditation -- as defined by you -- is better than anyone else's methods or, dare I say it, system. Truly, utterly preposterous.

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Originally Posted by jonesboy
Just look at people with premature crown openings.

Oh, for pity's sake! There's no such thing. I mean, really. You are so filled with fear, it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Just look at people with premature arrogance overflow.

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Originally Posted by jonesboy
The Internet is filled with people having real life issues with premature crown openings or a premature kundalini awakening.
And we all know that if it's on the internet, it must be true...especially if it's been so judged by you.

I'm impressed what others have posted on this thread.
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  #19  
Old 28-12-2014, 11:14 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Originally Posted by Everly
Are you serious? What a load of pure, unadulterated, egotistical ****. Who the heck do you think you are, to tell someone else, who has nothing but good intentions, to stop? Your ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance.



This is laughable. You don't know the depth and breadth of Gem's experiences and neither to do I. I agree with most of Gem's thoughts, opinions and ideas about meditation, and I'll put up my depth of experience against yours any day.

It's a preposterous notion to claim that "a system" of meditation -- as defined by you -- is better than anyone else's methods or, dare I say it, system. Truly, utterly preposterous.



Oh, for pity's sake! There's no such thing. I mean, really. You are so filled with fear, it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

Just look at people with premature arrogance overflow.


And we all know that if it's on the internet, it must be true...especially if it's been so judged by you.

I'm impressed what others have posted on this thread.


See what I mean.

I never recommend some system or practice designed or thought up by me. I Usally try it hit systems like Dzogchen, Kashmir Shaivism, Qi Gong, Zen I think you get my point. You can learn many of these for free in temples close by.

Or you could just make some stuff up :)
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  #20  
Old 29-12-2014, 01:08 AM
wstein wstein is offline
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Originally Posted by Gem
I wonder if that 'where they are on their journey' isn't a bit patronising. I gives me a feeling of wsteins on the high place and has to 'accept them on their journey'.
In the context of this discussion (narrow in scope) one might get that impression. Hey I'm at where I'm at too. In the infinite there are just as many 'further' along than I am as are 'behind'. Not of course that those terms have any significance.

Those that know me can attest that I shake my head as much at those considered by other to be spiritually advanced as those still just beginning. Its not that I think them stupid, its that I just can't figure out what they are up to. Doesn't really matter, I just find it curious. I think everyone's doings seem a bit peculiar to others. This feeling comes from them being different than ourselves and not really knowing who they are.

Acceptance means taking things as they are without being judgmental. It matters not whether or not they are making progress especially to another's eyes. If one 'has to' then its not acceptance.
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