Help With My Marriage Please

[fennel]

How about suggesting couple's counseling for you and your wife? Woes/difficulties in a marriage are never solely due to one party's behavior. We are getting your side of the situation, but I'm certain your wife has a compelling story of her own.

I wish you luck.

[Aralyn1983]

I'm going to offer my intuitive opinion, if that's okay... If not, feel free to stop reading! :-)

I get a sense that your wife's feelings and needs are much deeper than you realize, that you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

I also see her writing. Is she keeping a diary? Or perhaps this is symbolic of her being able to express herself in different ways, besides vocal communication, and maybe that's part of the gift-giving on her part, that she's trying to give you something to compensate for not being able to reciprocate your high-level of communication.

Would she be willing to try something different, like writing (love) letters -- handwritten or even via chat/email?

You seem extremely capable in your communication, so the line rings in my ears -- with great power, comes great responsibility. I really feel that you have the key to unlock this problem, because of your communicative talents.

I also get the sense that there's someone from your past that has a hold on you -- that there's someone on your mind who you've *had* this connection with, and that memory threatens this relationship.

From my own experience, I can say that, looking at past experiences or even looking to future ones, it's easy to see all the positive parts of a possible relationship and ignore the negative ones. I hope that everything works out! Thinking of you!

A

I really like Fennel's and Aralyn1983's responses!

Yeah, it seems like the two of you have communication problems.
One thought what came to my mind was that maybe you are too powerful that your wife feels like she is lost her voice?
Does she feel like she can really express herself to you?
How often do you talk to each other? How often do you get that feeling that she really gets you? It all depends on how you say what you are thinking. Words are important. So choose your words wisely.

Do you take time to really listen what your wife has to really saying? Do you always get her?
Do you know whats her love language? Does she knows yours?

You both need to work on it. You need to learn how to communicate, you need to talk about the differences and really get time to get to know each other. Maybe you two put your focus too much on other things, you have less time to yourselves and your relationship.

There are good article in web "Why doesn't he/she listen?" by John M. Grohol, Psy.D.
There is a webpage called 5 love languages, where you and your wife can take a test to see whats your love languages. Is your love language words of affirmation?
There are many articles in the web about how two people in close relationship don't understand each other. Search them out.
Also about when you and your partner speak different love languages.
As I understand I can't put here any links, unfortunately.

Good luck!

((double post))

[Green Tree]

Thank you all for your responses, suggestions, and care. The problem with going to counseling is that my wife has extreme difficulty silencing her inner monologue while in situations which require focus on the now, and therefore she is not present while her full attention is most required - THIS is THE problem as far as I can ascertain. I am aware that my vocabulary and grammar may be intimidating to someone who is less familiar with communication at such a level, and I therefore tailor my speech to fit best with whatever venue I find myself in. I do not speak to my wife using big words, long philosophical diatribes, or any other verbal function that may cause her to feel uncomfortable or lesser than myself. I cannot however, neglect the fact that she has felt inferior to me in this way for as long as we've been together (she has expressed this to me many times). She also admits that she's seen me approaching her gently and in ways she felt comfortable with engaging, though she is unable to reconcile my efforts with her own inner feelings of self deprecation.

It would be agony for my wife to keep a journal, and I say this in caring confidence knowing that her past attempts to do so have landed her in deeper depression and frustration than at the outset of the venture. She is so unwilling to face her own dysfunctional constructs that the mere thought of doing so cripples her for days. She literally begins to cry EVERY time I attempt to talk with her about the deep issues in our relationship - she is simply unwilling to go there.

Aralyn1983 is accurate in the observation that I have a model in mind, and I am willing to embrace and address whatever part I may have unwittingly played in creating an atmosphere where my wife feels uncomfortable with personal growth. I dated a wonderfully communicative Virgo for two years prior to my wife and I becoming involved, and although I have never mentioned to my wife that this woman and I had amazing communication (and as a result, amazing physical chemistry) I sense that my wife is aware that she may be in some way deficient in this regard (I use the word "deficient" as an adjective only and not as a statement of personal value regarding my wife's character).

I listen to my wife with the inner intensity of a focused beam and the outer composure of a caring soul. I do not know if I fully "get" my wife because she has difficulty sharing herself and her feelings (according to her she has always been this way). What I want most of all is to know her fully, or at least as fully as I can without living life in her skin. I have done my best to share my deep needs with her, and if asked, she would tell you that what her husband has expressed that he needs from her most of all is for her to be able to engage in intimate conversation without checking-out.

[Aralyn1983]

Agreeing with FollowBack. There was also a really great article on how to fall in love with anyone -- a scientific approach, which I found FASCINATING!

(shuffling some virtual papers)

I guess I can't paste in a link yet, but if you Google: Questions to Fall in Love with a Stranger, you'll get it!

[7luminaries]

There is a lot of great advice here but I don't think any of it can necessarity address a situation where one person is either unwilling or unable to engage, or both. A one-sided relationship nearly always becomes exploitative eventually of the one who is engaging and doing more. Even if it is not the explicit intention of the other to directly hurt the first, nor to disengage from the relationship. It may simply be that one partner does not possess the ability to engage deeply in emotionally intimate relationships.

It seems to me that Green Tree does love his wife deeply and that's why he's here. However falling in love and feeling the love is only part of it on either side, and that itself requires the capacity to authentically do so. Moreover, a large part of love is the doing and being. Doing the love and being the love requires presence and engagement, as well as empathy.

I think the advice here would be really just spot on for someone who wasn't engaging and was actively working on him- or herself in other ways and was willing to address the need to work on presence, engagement, and intimacy. And to the extent there is even a single stone unturned for Green Tree himself, the information here may be very beneficial indeed!

But with regard to his wife, she too must likewise freely engage in the relationship and of what is required of her to heal and maintain it of her own accord. It is quite possible that she does feel love but that she may be unable to identify her emotions, and/or express certain emotion or emotion generally, and/or to empathise or engage in ways that are considered normative behaviour, and so forth.

There are many possibilities and of course we don't have all the info. However whenever an impasse is reached and communication is difficult, IMO marital counseling is always a good idea, rather than chucking the marriage, or letting the distance grow or fester. Certainly, though, there are many types of personality disorders that cannot be sorted by many standard marriage counselors. And certainly not by regular folks, nor by their spouses. fam, or friends.

For many situations that may be resistant to standard marital counseling, I would highly recommend professional counseling and therapy, as well, before deciding on the fate of the marriage. Avoidant attachment disorders, along with various disorders on the narcissism spectrum, for one, severely limit the capacity for emotional intimacy and empathy in an individual, and so they definitely fall under this umbrella.

This is why I suggested reputable professional marital and individual counseling, including mediation, communication techniques, and frameworks for discussion and resolution (if possible). Particularly counselors who are trained in recognition and treatment of avoidant attachment disorders and other similar disorders.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[fennel]

Followback and Aralyn's posts were good.

Green Tree, I'm certain you aren't intending to sound this way, but there's a definite tone of condescension where your wife is concerned, at least from this outsider's view point.

I don't know either of you, but you seem so quick to point out her frailties and inabilities. I can imagine she is more than a bit intimidated by you.

If you truly want to communicate with her, perhaps she might be allowed to select a counselor of her choice and become comfortable with that individual first- then, integrate you into the sessions at a time when she is more at ease.

If your motive is to unload her and seek out a more chemistry laden relationship with another, perhaps the kindest thing is to sever your ties now, without "kitchen sinking" her in the communication department. Only you know what is in your heart.

[7luminaries]

I think everyone's posts were good , and that everyone's posts potentially have information that may be relevant and helpful to Green Tree (that I have seen here...didnt see KevinO's, but otherwise all good ) .

But IMO there's nothing wrong with expressing frustration about lack of emotional intimacy. More often, it's women expressing this frustration about men, and most of us deeply understand how important this is...and how you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. The thing is, you cannot make her drink either, necessarily. And I am so encouraged to see a man actively desiring and seeking intimacy with his committed partner. That alone is a wonderful thing.

That said, we cannot change others. Nor can we hold them up to models or molds based on others -- I agree that is unfair. We can however say that we need or desire x,y, and z. Emotional intimacy is both a valid human need and a valid human desire, and should be owned by each of us as just that -- free and clear of any set molds based on prior relationships.

We can at best find better ways to communicate our needs and desires with honesty and compassion on both sides. But communication, too, depends on engagement. If one person is unable or unwilling to engage beyond a minimal level, then everything else unravels.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Green Tree]

Thank you all for your care and concern. It is true that I am only able to present my perspective in this matter, and I have taken what I feel are appropriate liberties with respect to sharing some of my wife's limitations because she herself has acknowledged these concerns which I have brought forth. I do not doubt that my wife is intimidated by me, not because she's afraid of me, but because she has a self deprecating nature, and merely being in the company of a confident person can be very intimidating to a person with such propensities. I have done all I know how to do in regards to tailoring my speech to a more easily approached manner while in conversation with her, and I have even suspended my pressing of certain important matters in the hope that being more gentle and available would open her up, to no avail.

I am not looking for a better deal, and I am in no way interested in replacing my wife with a more "compatible" partner. More than anything, I desire for her to be the one I can talk to, the one who will share with me in return, but I am beginning to realize that I've been dishonest with myself and with her as it pertains to our incompatibility.

The catch 22 in this situation is one of the most frustrating aspects of this situation. This being her inability to engage in meaningful conversation with any actual presence or accurate recall, thereby rendering counseling a moot option for her. I can see how hearing only one side of this complicated matter would render an image that sounds cocky, or perhaps condescending, but that is not my intent nor is it my impetus. I have acknowledged my own weakness in failing to accept that my wife was this way when we met, and that I should have been more honest with myself and with her about these matters when we first connected. I has been 15 years since we married, and both she and I have grown, and further diverged in our respective personality differences. While I have become more aware of my true needs (and more communicative thereof), she has become more withdrawn and unaware of her own.

She just got home from work. We never talk any more. I'm at a loss :(