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Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.
We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.
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24-11-2018, 06:18 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weareunity
Dear Sky 123,
Is it permissible to question this understanding, or indeed any other understanding?
pete
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I personally think it depends on individual preferences, some like to be questioned others don't and of course it depends on the questions.
Sometimes Religious questions touch a raw nerve as some people think you should just accept and not question.
Different horses for different courses
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24-11-2018, 11:06 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
If you read the Kaddish then you can see that it is referring to the coming of the Kingdom in the lifetime of the house of Israel, in the world he created according to his will.
' By His will, He created the worldÓ says the Kaddish. Many prayers of the Jewish liturgy also begin with the words ÒMay it be Your willÓ (
Yehi Ratzon),
followed by the expression of the specific wish that we obey Him and be given the opportunity to perform some of the precepts of the Torah. ÒObey His will, so that he may fulfill your will Ð the desire of your heart.Ó Mishnah Avot 2:4 The LordÕs prayer makes it quite explicit: ÒThy will be done on earth as it is in heavenÓ meaning that humans should strive to fulfill the will of God on earth - and not in heaven. As W. Grundmann states: ÒIn heaven, GodÕs will is done: on earth, may it be done.'
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This is a good answer I think. I would especially point to "In heaven, Gods will is done: on earth, may it be done" as the striving to accept God as ruler, instead of either demanding it or assuming it as an easy feat.
Ego is very strong in people regardless of their beliefs. I think its quite interesting that the ego battle might be the similarity between the various spiritual paths, but each path's solution perhaps differs.
Where a Christian strives to discern and accept the will of God, effectively trumping our own will, a Buddhist might try to see the illusory nature of ego. The different solutions do give a different end result I think.
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25-11-2018, 05:33 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,530
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Here's another interpretation of the phrase ' Thy Will be done ' supposedly from the original Aramaic, which is different than the Greek translation of the NT.
' Let Your Heart’s desire unite heaven and earth through our sacred union '
To me this is referring to the ego ( Earth) ) and the true self ( Heaven ).
Just my own opinion though... others will differ.
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25-11-2018, 08:14 AM
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Master
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Jesus didn’t accept the stoning of a woman accused of adultery, he made a decision based on his internal moral compass and found a way to ‘get out’ of seeing the sentence passed. The sentence he effectively overturned was from the Old Testament, and he never endorsed condemnation of adultery.
Nor did Jesus ever deplore homosexuality, and it cannot be construed from anything he said, regardless of what the Old Testament had to say on the subject.
As far as abortion goes, there is no explicit prohibition in either the Old or New Testament, though there is an emphasis on the value of life. So Christianity based on the sayings of Jesus and modern sensibilities are not at odds in your examples.
Nor do I see any prohibition about going to doctors in the New Testament. I could equally say it is God’s will that life be highly valued, and all reasonable efforts should be taken to guard life.
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The Pope, I am quite sure, would be very grateful for this information. It would allow him to upgrade his book and look at the world in a much more modern way.
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25-11-2018, 08:29 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Here's another interpretation of the phrase ' Thy Will be done ' supposedly from the original Aramaic, which is different than the Greek translation of the NT.
' Let Your Heart’s desire unite heaven and earth through our sacred union '
To me this is referring to the ego ( Earth) ) and the true self ( Heaven ).
Just my own opinion though... others will differ.
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All the translations (and there are more and more as time goes by) from the 'original Aramaic' are fairly free and sometimes fairly self-indulgent interpretations of a couple of Syriac versions of the gospels. Syriac was not the language of Jesus, and the numerous fanciful interpretations that are mushrooming are just confusing New Agers and gnostics who prefer this sort of soft focus mysticism.
In the words of one scholar: "The less it looks like the Lord’s Prayer as you know it, the more likely it is to be a free paraphrase or interpretation rather than a translation."
See this article for an overview http://aramaicnt.org/2007/06/09/o-fa...of-the-cosmos/
The Jewish references to 'Thy will be done" that you posted earlier are a much better source for the meaning of the Lord's prayer, considering Jesus was a Jewish man who knew the Jewish texts. Why would he suddenly start sounding like some weird New Age mystic?
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25-11-2018, 08:42 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
The Pope, I am quite sure, would be very grateful for this information. It would allow him to upgrade his book and look at the world in a much more modern way.
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Maybe we could discuss what Jesus said more than what the Pope said. He's involved in a church that is incredibly rich and has been incredibly abusive, most recently in its shameful ignoring of paedophile priests.
It would be a shame if Christianity was reduced to whatever the pope says, but luckily we can all read the bible directly ourselves now and make up our own minds from what is written about Jesus and the words he spoke.
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25-11-2018, 08:43 AM
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Ascender
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 754
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Hello all.
Can "thy will be done" be understood in terms of "how" and "now"? Or are understandings necessarily of the nature which sit in the waiting rooms of expectation?
pete
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25-11-2018, 09:02 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
All the translations (and there are more and more as time goes by) from the 'original Aramaic' are fairly free and sometimes fairly self-indulgent interpretations of a couple of Syriac versions of the gospels. Syriac was not the language of Jesus, and the numerous fanciful interpretations that are mushrooming are just confusing New Agers and gnostics who prefer this sort of soft focus mysticism.
In the words of one scholar: "The less it looks like the Lord’s Prayer as you know it, the more likely it is to be a free paraphrase or interpretation rather than a translation."
See this article for an overview http://aramaicnt.org/2007/06/09/o-fa...of-the-cosmos/
The Jewish references to 'Thy will be done" that you posted earlier are a much better source for the meaning of the Lord's prayer, considering Jesus was a Jewish man who knew the Jewish texts. Why would he suddenly start sounding like some weird New Age mystic?
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' Why would he suddenly start sounding like some weird New Age mystic? '
Where does he sound like a New Age Mystic to you?
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25-11-2018, 10:00 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' Why would he suddenly start sounding like some weird New Age mystic? '
Where does he sound like a New Age Mystic to you?
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Our genderless spirit guide
who art in everything,
honored be thy names.
Thy new age come,
thy will be manifested,
on this and on all cosmic planes.
Break with us our daily gluten-free unleavened bread,
and forgive us our bad karma,
as we forgive those
who project their bad karma onto us.
Lead us not into negative vibrations,
but deliver us from organized religion.
For ours is the harmonic unity, the empowerment, and the glory,
forever and ever.
Namaste.
John Shore
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25-11-2018, 01:58 PM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 15,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by django
Our genderless spirit guide
who art in everything,
honored be thy names.
Thy new age come,
thy will be manifested,
on this and on all cosmic planes.
Break with us our daily gluten-free unleavened bread,
and forgive us our bad karma,
as we forgive those
who project their bad karma onto us.
Lead us not into negative vibrations,
but deliver us from organized religion.
For ours is the harmonic unity, the empowerment, and the glory,
forever and ever.
Namaste.
John Shore
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That's nice, thanks for sharing.
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