I died December 2016

[Colorado]

Wow...

I'm wondering if after this, if you have had any psychic experiences? I'm always curious about that...because after mine...I did, alot. I've always had them, since I was a toddler, but after my NDE...it was all the time. Dreams, Prophecy, clairsentience, clairaudience, visits from deceased relatives, and others, taking spiritual classes on the other side (At College auditoriums and ampitheaters with scholars) just anything else you might recall over time..

[Convolution]

Originally Posted by leadville

hello - You may nearly have died. You don't come back from death, just sometimes from near-death.

It seems you do come back from death. Clinical death is characterized by the cessation of all activity in the heart and brain, whereas if no intervention were to be performed it would be a path of no return.
We are simply discovering that death is a process, and sometimes it can be reverted by medical procedures or even "miraculous" spontaneous remissions/revivals.
There have been people dead for many hours that were later revived. They were dead. They were brought back from the dead.

Now, of course, we can play the game of always pushing our definition of death further into that point of no return, much like we do with AI and intelligence. But that's all it is: playing with definitions. It hasn't changed the actual meaning.

Originally Posted by Convolution

It seems you do come back from death. Clinical death is characterized by the cessation of all activity in the heart and brain, whereas if no intervention were to be performed it would be a path of no return.
We are simply discovering that death is a process, and sometimes it can be reverted by medical procedures or even "miraculous" spontaneous remissions/revivals.
There have been people dead for many hours that were later revived. They were dead. They were brought back from the dead.

Now, of course, we can play the game of always pushing our definition of death further into that point of no return, much like we do with AI and intelligence. But that's all it is: playing with definitions. It hasn't changed the actual meaning.

You're absolutely correct - it seems you come back from death - it seems that way.....

There's no need to PLAY with definitions but we do need a simple one for death - clearly the medical ones don't work reliably all the time. The spiritual version tells us that death is an irreversible condition characterised by the animating spirit and the physical body parting company irreversibly. Fortunately for many/most of us we're not buried or cremated quickly and there's often days or more between death and disposal - little chance of disposing of someone who hadn't actually died.

Apparent death - the examples you've given - are simply that. An individual appears to have died because there's no measurable sign of body or brain activity - but medically there's no way to tell if body and spirit have parted company irreversibly. Hence individuals appear to return to life, even after long periods of time.

Again it's just how the situation seems to be.

[Convolution]

Correct, it seems that way.
It's just a definition we've created for the process of dying. We used to think it was black and white and irreversible. I think the more we develop medicine, the more reversible it will become. Already we have some freak occurrences of people surviving over 14 hours after all cessation of bodily functions.
The medical community uses that as its definition because that is the point of no return for 99.9999% of people without major medical intervention of some kind. If we are to believe NDEs, and one day confirm concretely that the consciousness continues its experience outside the body, I think that would provide a stronger argument for that being the definition and the event of death, since even the consciousness/spirit agrees as it departs. It is only that we've gotten really, really good at restoring vital functions after that point of death. We don't continue vital functions. We bring them back.

Even the researchers who coined the term later regretted having named it so, for they realized it represents at the very least the belief on the part of the consciousness in having reached a point of no return, thus potentially serving as a field of research for what happens afrter.

This is why I usually prefer the term discarnate, and incarnate, as it gets quicker to the heart of the matter (for those who believe in discarnate consciousness, at least): Is the consciousness in or out of the body?

Medically there is no way to tell there is even a spirit at all. So we haven't quite proven that. We have the beginnings of evidence in vericial accounts of OBE during an NDE, which is good enough to get started on. For all we know, empirically, that is the point of death, and one day we may become great at "freezing" and restoring life to those who have departed. We don't know.
It's not unlike killing the motor of a car, and deciding to go through an expensive process to install new parts, restore old ones and fix it once again. The car died. It's dead. It may not even be financially beneficial to restore it. Technically anything is likely to be restore-able as we progress technologically. Our attachments with the car, and bodies/people is such that we could choose to do anything, and often do anything we can when the matter revolves around people, to try and bring them back to an alive state.

Mystically, I guess we could go by the belief that there is no death. No one dies. It's just an illusion. I've no idea whether that is really the case. I wish it to be, and I hope it is.

[Convolution]

Originally Posted by Jaedaddy

I suffered from a ruptured ascending aortic arch and was rushed to emergency surgery at UW Medical Center on December 6th, 2016. After going over the procedure ahead with the doctors and my family, I was set to head into emergency surgery to repair and replace the arch on my ascending Aorta that leads directly from the heart to the rest of my body. It's a surgery that most people never live long enough to reach help, much less survive the surgery itself. In my case they had to take me into Deep Hypothermic Arrest. They had to slowly cool my core body temperature to 68 degrees as well as my brain. This surgical procedure required my heart and brain function to stop for at least 40 minutes so they could repair the Aorta itself. It ended up being a 13 hour surgery and upon completion they couldn't get my heart to pump on it's own so I was placed on an Ecmo Heart Machine to pump it for me while I recovered from the surgery that placed so much trauma upon my entire body. During the time I was clinically dead and after the surgery had to be rewarmed and resuscitated back to life. Then I remember floating above the hospital and then seeing myself as I laid there recovering. As a result of the surgery my kidneys and liver began to fail and I contracted multiple infections. I even ended up losing some muscles in my leg due to a condition known as compartment syndrome. The doctors even had a meeting with my family about 20 days into the coma to discuss the level of brain damage I would most likely suffer after recovering from the surgery itself. The doctors gave me a 3-4% chance of surviving. I cannot say for sure what the time line was for my near death experience but I remember transporting to a beautiful mansion with perfectly manicured grounds surrounding it. It's funny because I disctinctly remember seeing rhododendrons there. There are Rhododendrons in Heaven, or at least there were where I transported to. Then I remember entering this pristine mansion where I was met by a beautiful tall slender woman wearing wearing all white. I remember the sound of water flowing, trickling like a water feature or a babbling brook. At any rate I spoke with this woman but our mouths weren't moving but I could understand what she was thinking. I can't quite remember exactly what she said to me but I felt unconditionally safe, loved, welcome and accepted. Later I found myself back in my bed where another woman came to me and told me that they were going to let me go back. If I was given a reason I can't recall what it was, at least not yet. On Christmas Eve I began to open my eyes to see my Fiance' sitting there by my bedside. I always felt safe before and after the surgery. In hindsight I felt safe when I died and after being resuscitated and awaken from a coma I always felt safe and loved. It's as if I just knew I was going to be ok. As time goes by, nearly two years now, my memories of that day come back to me in bits and pieces. Probably because of the level of brain damage I suffered. It's mostly memory that was affected. I had to learn to walk again and with much physical therapy I am happy to announce I can walk now somewhat normally but with a new condition known as drop foot. I have to wear a brace to keep my foot in place but if that's the only bad thing I came out with after this incredible ordeal, then I'll take it! I am trying to understand my NDE better though. I have reached out to a couple of hypnotists to see if they felt they could help me recapture some of these lost memories and moments. Until then any feedback from anyone else who has had a near death experience and out of body experiences as well would be welcome.

Hi Jaedaddy! Thank you for sharing your experience.

I have a couple of questions for you, if you would be so kind as to help me understand.
When you died, do you happen to know what your mental state was like? Do you recall whether it seemed dream like, or whether you felt just as you did in the body? One of the questions I am trying to figure out is if we, as human observers, the consciousness we have in the human body, is the exact same entity as the spiritual one, or whether the spirit is a separate entity from the human one. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

Thank you!

[Colorado]

I don't know if Jaed will be back...but I can share with you, my NDE.

It was literally in the blink of an eye, I was here one second...and gone the next.

I did experience consciousness, like I would if I was sitting in my room...blinked my eyes, and was in a totally different reality. I didn't know where I was. The best way I can describe it was...a grey foggy cloudy looking place. I distinctly remember asking myself, or thinking...."Where am I?"

At that thought, through the fog appeared a loved one of mine.
He was different, he looked to be made of some kind of electrical energy. His eyes were still blue, and they were very bright. He was wearing the clothes he was buried in. Also, it's worth mentioning...that I had no clue I was on the brink of death, I was only 24 years old.

I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know where I was. I didn't even recognize my loved one, because I didn't realize what had happened to me.

So, standing next to my loved one, was an angel...she was different than him....she was very bright, made of light...very bright white light.

They just looked at me, and then my loved one...who was a small child when he died...turned around to skip away from me. The angel picked him up from under his arms and playfully grabbed him to lift him up to the sky...where behind them was all black....but a tiny pin point of light.

Into that light they went...and everything went black.

I can tell you that it wasn't my time to go...and when they left me, and everything went black...in hindsight, looking back...I now know that they knew I was going to be ok, and I went to unconsciousness, briefly afterwards. I had no opinion either way, as I did not know the situation I was in, or what had happened.

I know that I felt everything, and saw everything the way I normally would...I would have reacted, and thought the same things had I been awake.

The only difference was, that I had no immediate recollection of my current life, my current name, my family, or even this planet.

I felt no pain, no suffering....although there was confusion, there was no fear or negative feelings. I felt fine...totally fine...I was me, myself...non attached to anything or anyone.

It did not feel like a dream, although afterwards...I did question my sanity, and if it was a hallucination.

I had so many psychic experiences afterwards...I mean very psychic, can't ignore, in my face loudly and bluntly... experiences...which I questioned at first...then realized it all started after my NDE.

I also started remembering things, from my early childhood..the first five years...where I had these same kinds of experience s...but had somehow forgotten after about the age of 5 or 6 years old.

I remembered everything, in great detail, and was introduced to deceased relatives that I had never met through dreams...I was shown things about people..like a video recorder capturing images of their memories, traumas and events in their lives.

The dead relatives, I had no way to find their identities...as nobody in my family that I talked to remembered them. One if them, was found in my great grandfather's online obituary...years later, he was briefly mentioned. I found him then...I knew he was young, and I knew the year he died...although I didn't know how he died...in my dreams, he regularly showed up to the side...until I paid attention to him one night...and he held up a flashing neon yellow sign...like the kind you would find hanging up at bar. It simply said, "1968"

My great uncle died in Quang Nam, Vietnam in 1968. He was 20 years old. I met him in dreams...and it took approximately 3 years to find his name, and who he was...and if he was real or not...In my great grandfather's obituary...who I hadn't seen in 20 years because he lived in another state
I was not looking for my uncle, as I didn't even know he really existed until then...only in dreams.

After my NDE, I would wake up to deceased people in my room...people I didn't know had died. They were always florescent in color, wearing the same clothes they wore in life...I would rub my eyes, in disbelief...(because they weren't suppose to be in my room at that time on the morning, and they were bright in color)...and then they'd be gone.

Then I would find out they died within a few days of seeing them. They had already died, even before I would wake up to them sitting at the end of my bed.

I was shown future events, people, jobs, ECT..I would be talking to someone, and their face would disappear...or an image would appear over their heads...of events or memories in their energy field. I was taken to classes on the other side, while I slept...in big auditoriums and ampitheaters, or colleges for higher learning...often accompanied by scholars, or men in robes...just like you would see Jesus wear. They were teaching the classes.

I was shown many things, some past lives, too. Something I didn't believe in at the time.

Unfortunately, I was also shown impending deaths...which proved to be too much for me to handle. After a coworkers toddler drowned...

I had a complete meltdown before God or whoever was showing me these things, in my eyes, against my will...
And I demanded that this stop immediately. It was too much, more than once I was left completely terrified, and out of my mind in tears...and even my husband had to help me back up...as he had witnessed one episode with me the night a relative died..and decided to pay me a visit.

It did stop, but I still get random things here and there...visions and dreams, but they have nothing to do with death anymore, or traumatic events.

Most of this started after my NDE...and went on for years.

None of it was maliciously done to me, I had just become so sensitive, and open to so many things I didn't understand, that was not of this world...and nobody to help me understand any of it...although I don't remember, as my memory was consciously cleared upon Awakening of the teachings...maybe that's part of what the classes were for...since those too....started after my NDE

[Convolution]

What an amazing experience, Colorado! Thank you for sharing!
Do you have any idea as to why you would have no recollection during the beginning of the nde? I've heard that can happen sometimes, as it seemed to for Eben Alexander as well, for example. Just haven't quite figured out why

Originally Posted by Convolution

Hi Jaedaddy! Thank you for sharing your experience.

I have a couple of questions for you, if you would be so kind as to help me understand.
When you died, do you happen to know what your mental state was like? Do you recall whether it seemed dream like, or whether you felt just as you did in the body? One of the questions I am trying to figure out is if we, as human observers, the consciousness we have in the human body, is the exact same entity as the spiritual one, or whether the spirit is a separate entity from the human one. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

Thank you!

Hi Convolution

I think this is an interesting question so I will weigh in as well.

I tend to think the answer to this is yes and no depending on how we look at it. I think the human experience is consciousness filtered though the ego (at least the experience of feeling like a human being). The ego being a set of changing beliefs about "me" or "self" that I have built throughout my lifetime. So yes, when we are constraining our awareness to being aware of ourselves as the ego, we are more or less that, so it is something different then the larger consciousness. But then again, like everything, it is created by and within our larger consciousness so, no, it is not something different.

Like so many other things, yes and no, its a matter of perspective.

Does that make any sense?

[Convolution]

Hi Ketzer, thank you for chipping in. I think I understand what you mean, but don't know if my main question has been addressed, likely due to me not being very clear about my meaning of consciousness as used in this context.

Behind our memories, self identity, experiences, ego, most of everything, we have an observer. Nothing more nor less. A conscious entity which witnesses things through these senses of ours, "impartial". This is the consciousness I speak of, the observer upon which all other layers are added. Do you believe that to be the same consciousness as that of soul/spirit? That is:
1- does it leave the body, or is a copy of it taken by the spirit consciousness as a separate entity?
2- if it does leave the body, is it the same consciousness? Memories and experiences aside, will it get diluted by the rest of consciousness ever present in the spirit world? Or will you retain 100% of your conscious experience and free will, just expanded by old memories remembered?

Originally Posted by Convolution

Hi Ketzer, thank you for chipping in. I think I understand what you mean, but don't know if my main question has been addressed, likely due to me not being very clear about my meaning of consciousness as used in this context.

Behind our memories, self identity, experiences, ego, most of everything, we have an observer. Nothing more nor less. A conscious entity which witnesses things through these senses of ours, "impartial". This is the consciousness I speak of, the observer upon which all other layers are added. Do you believe that to be the same consciousness as that of soul/spirit? That is:
1- does it leave the body, or is a copy of it taken by the spirit consciousness as a separate entity?
2- if it does leave the body, is it the same consciousness? Memories and experiences aside, will it get diluted by the rest of consciousness ever present in the spirit world? Or will you retain 100% of your conscious experience and free will, just expanded by old memories remembered?

I believe this is the same consciousness as that of the soul or spirit.

In answer to number 1, I wouldn't say the spirit leaves the body, more like the body leaves the spirit....or better yet, consciousness expands its awareness to realize it is more than the body (sort of like waking up from a dream in which you were someone or something else). I don't actually subscribe to the idea of material realism. That is to say I don't believe there is an actual physical reality that is separate from and impartial to the consciousness that observes it. Information yes, but physical form no. Forms arise within consciousness and that is only where they exist (as forms). All reality that involves forms is a form of virtual reality.

In answer to number 2, I tend to believe that our experiences and memories of this life are not necessarily ours. Past, present, and future don't flow from left to right, but rather all just simply exist. The flow of time is an illusory construct within consciousness created as part of the experience of life. All possible pasts and futures of the ego I currently feel I am experiencing as me, already exist and always have. I don't really know how much access our consciousness would have to these stories when in an expanded state, but I don't see why we would not be able to read any part of the akeskih records we chose to (which includes 100% of your conscious life experience..in all its possible permutations). Of course simply reading the records verses experiencing the life stories they contain would involve different states of consciousness.

I find it interesting when individuals relate NDE's as they often struggle to find a way to convey the experience. They often say it was "sort of like this, but not really", or "I can't truly convey what it was like". I wonder if they experienced consciousness in higher dimensions, and can't really express the experience in the four dimensional space time that the life experience is limited to.