Do you ever feel that God is playing you for an idiot?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

BUDH in Sanskirt: From the Princeton Dictionary of Buddhism: buddha. (T. sangs rgyas; C. fo; J. butsu/hotoke; K. pul 佛). In Sanskrit and Pāli,
“awakened one” or “enlightened one”; an epithet derived from the Sanskrit root
√budh, meaning “to awaken” or “to open up” (as does a flower) and thus
traditionally etymologized as one who has awakened from the deep sleep of
ignorance and opened his consciousness to encompass all objects of knowledge.
.

I apologise because it seems that we are both correct, as I was taking my meaning directly from the Vedic literature:

Buddhi (Sanskrit: बुद्धि) is derived from the Vedic Sanskrit root Budh (बुध् ), which literally means "to wake, be awake, observe, heed, attend, learn, become aware of, to know, be conscious again".[1] The term appears extensively in Rigveda and other Vedic literature.[1] Buddhi means, states Monier Williams, the power to "form, retain concepts; intelligence, reason, intellect, mind", the intellectual faculty and the ability to "discern, judge, comprehend, understand" something.[1][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhi

I feel the difference occurs in a 'mental awakening' vs one that occurs beyond the mind and all knowledge.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

I apologise because it seems that we are both correct, as I was taking my meaning directly from the Vedic literature:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhi

I feel the difference occurs in a 'mental awakening' vs one that occurs beyond the mind and all knowledge.

Yes. Manu means, "To Think." Man occupies the Buddha Mind (mind is Buddha). It is the means to an end, or suffering division to once again find unity (Yoga) in meditation (thinking). The object of BUDH is to create more sentient minds, compounded using contingent components. It's a created reality from the mind of others. Programmed. Mara is the mother of Buddha, or illusion (hologram). It's produced. Any sentient being that is created is artificial to the one creating him. Bridging this gap requires knowledge of the other side. They learn from us. We learn from them. It's an endless web Indra casts in a fractal.

https://youtu.be/yD9og3ylAzg

.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Originally Posted by Honza

Increasingly over the years I have begun to feel that reality and God is just playing stupid games with me. My feeling is that the gist of these 'games' is to encourage me to EMPOWER myself and be self dependent. It is like these foolish games are telling me the folly of being too dependent upon others.

It really hurts! The most sad and pathetic situations arise whereby I am cornered into asserting my own Godhood. But the trouble is I am in the dark and I am never sure what is going on. It is like being deeply disrespected by God.

Make sure to watch the video I just posted in the last comment. I think it speaks to your questions. The answer is always in the question. Quest.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

Yes. Manu means, "To Think." Man occupies the Buddha Mind (mind is Buddha). It is the means to an end, or suffering division to once again find unity (Yoga) in meditation (thinking). The object of BUDH is to create more sentient minds, compounded using contingent components. It's a created reality from the mind of others. Programmed. Mara is the mother of Buddha, or illusion (hologram). It's produced. Any sentient being that is created is artificial to the one creating him. Bridging this gap requires knowledge of the other side. They learn from us. We learn from them. It's an endless web Indra casts in a fractal.

https://youtu.be/yD9og3ylAzg

.

Yes. I was only emphasising the point where most people believe that they can use their minds to go beyond the mind and enlightenment or awakening is something that can occur merely through the intellect, reason or by thinking about it a lot, when that can only show us the door, but can't take us through it. The mind of man is way too limited to understand or perceive such a nebulous concept as God, but people still try and still fail (the non-duality forum is full of them). The mind is still a part (if not all) of the ego and even all reasoning, all knowledge and all jnana has to be dropped in the end. Hence the Vedas gives way to Vedanta - the end of all that can ever be learned, known or understood about it...thus we reach the limitations of Buddhism.

Yeah, so who cast that net again? :p

[Shivani Devi]

The whole thing in a nutshell, is that both Honza and myself have issues with the entire "I AM" philosophy, because we both love God way too much to ever want that to be who we are.

If I didn't believe or feel that God was separate from me, if I didn't personalise it, I wouldn't be able to experience that love in the first place. How can I love 'nothing'? I'd rather be an atheist.

For a long time I struggled with it and I even answered Honza's question about how the "I" and "God" can exist separately, yet not be separate simultaneously and love is the key to it.

Despite everybody telling me "I AM" and "separateness is an illusion" I turned to God and God just said "ignore them all and love me". So, the ocean becomes the drop, but the ocean is still the ocean and the drop is still the drop.

Oh all of the judgmental, intolerant crud I find myself getting into whenever I mention that I worship the Puranic form of Lord Shiva...that I have a Hindu shrine/altar with murthys (holy statues) on it and that I am a full-on dualist until non-duality is attained and then I am a dualist once again...first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

I am not God! because the "I" in ANY context of the pronoun is still the ego talking. God is God and I am me and the best I can ever say is that Shiva is in my heart and I am in His, just like any lover and beloved.

We occasionally merge into each other during ecstasy, as two lovers would during the act of 'love-making' and we become one IN the love, but there's always still Shiva and there's always still me even when I am totally and hopelessly lost in Him.

This is how we can exist as one and yet separate same time but not all the time...and I would never want it to be that way even IF others say that's the way it already is, because what would they know about me? or Shiva? or the relationship between either/or?

...and that's basically what's going down and I hope it helps Honza out too.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

The whole thing in a nutshell, is that both Honza and myself have issues with the entire "I AM" philosophy, because we both love God way too much to ever want that to be who we are.

If I didn't believe or feel that God was separate from me, if I didn't personalise it, I wouldn't be able to experience that love in the first place. How can I love 'nothing'? I'd rather be an atheist.

For a long time I struggled with it and I even answered Honza's question about how the "I" and "God" can exist separately, yet not be separate simultaneously and love is the key to it.

Despite everybody telling me "I AM" and "separateness is an illusion" I turned to God and God just said "ignore them all and love me". So, the ocean becomes the drop, but the ocean is still the ocean and the drop is still the drop.

Oh all of the judgmental, intolerant crud I find myself getting into whenever I mention that I worship the Puranic form of Lord Shiva...that I have a Hindu shrine/altar with murthys (holy statues) on it and that I am a full-on dualist until non-duality is attained and then I am a dualist once again...first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

I am not God! because the "I" in ANY context of the pronoun is still the ego talking. God is God and I am me and the best I can ever say is that Shiva is in my heart and I am in His, just like any lover and beloved.

We occasionally merge into each other during ecstasy, as two lovers would during the act of 'love-making' and we become one IN the love, but there's always still Shiva and there's always still me even when I am totally and hopelessly lost in Him.

This is how we can exist as one and yet separate same time but not all the time...and I would never want it to be that way even IF others say that's the way it already is, because what would they know about me? or Shiva? or the relationship between either/or?

...and that's basically what's going down and I hope it helps Honza out too.

Duality and nonduality are not mutually exclusive. Yoga is the answer from Sanskrit, which means unity of multiples. In Hebrew, this is Echad, or the word denoting Adam and Eve in union as one (Echad). Yichad is the word single, or bad. The concept is further clarified in the Hebrew as All in All, which is knowing as you are known. For now, in the image (illusion of single nature), we do not know the other side, yet we are known. To become All in All (union like Yoga), we conform to the original image (face before creation). If we are perfected from the beginning, why do we experience suffering and imbalance (Dhkkah)?

The simple answer is to see that a perfect copy of God is simply a mirror for his own infinite nature. To individuate, the copy must express its own will (Ishvara) and gain its own Strength (Aleph). From this, the organs of wisdom (Vijajana) are developed in the infant entity. From our perspective here, we do not know our first nature until discovered, which is the process to awaken the individuated higher nature when ready. It's the same as a baby in the womb. In this case, our first estate was perfection and all knowing, a perfect image of God. After individuation, we slowly remember our first face. All in All. It's the goal. You can read it in chapters like Hebrews 9 and 1 Corinthians 15.

To recapture the first estate, we give over our authority and dominion as a relative nature. This process must be done in faith, or the recognition of what God is -- Love. It must be trust both ways. Death is overcome (the last enemy) when awakening of the higher nature occurs. Still, practice must become performance. Wisdom must be expressed into action, leaving a remainder for the person to accomplish. This is the Bodhisattva returning to work from compassion.

See this Harry Potter clip. Harry is both Dumbaldore in the future and Valdamort at the depths of his lower nature. All timelines converge on his present moment as Harry. He is both Master / Sage and enemy. Does he choose to move on, or return for his friends?

God is All in All when All are united.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM3dRKpRots

[Shivani Devi]

Yes, Yoga is the answer and I choose Bhakti Yoga in this regard - the yoga of Divine love.

Or maybe after realising the All, I still worship Shiva because my heart is totally overcome by rapturous love in remembrance of many lifetimes spent in His servitude.

It's something I just cannot help anyway - nothing I can realistically do about it, as if I could ever stop loving Shiva by just listening to the words of another person....it would be like them telling me to stop breathing because I 'am' my breath.

Put it another way - if separation is an illusion, then give me the illusion! The ignorance is so blissful that I don't care, and I have overcome death already. There's total, unconditional love and unconditional trust both ways here and I get very teary when I talk about this, so excuse me while I go and bathe His feet with my tears.

[Shivani Devi]

I just heard the universe laugh and go "one does not simply reason away my existence with a Bhakta". LOL

Then, it went on to discuss the similarities and differences between the Jivatman and the Paramatman, but I wasn't paying attention.

[Shivani Devi]

He's still trying to teach me and it's just going over my head like a jumbo jet when I can't use my mind whatsoever in His presence.

So, it's like; "alright then, please allow me to simplify it....

"Person A" sees a ghost.
"Person B" says "ghosts are not real"
"Person A" says "well, tell that to the one I saw".

When others say "I am you" it simply means that I am nothing without you. Of course I still exist regardless of whether you do, but I have also lost myself in you as well. We are separate 'beings' as far as 'beings' go and you know I exist - your heart tells you I do".

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Yes. I was only emphasising the point where most people believe that they can use their minds to go beyond the mind and enlightenment or awakening is something that can occur merely through the intellect, reason or by thinking about it a lot, when that can only show us the door, but can't take us through it. The mind of man is way too limited to understand or perceive such a nebulous concept as God, but people still try and still fail (the non-duality forum is full of them). The mind is still a part (if not all) of the ego and even all reasoning, all knowledge and all jnana has to be dropped in the end. Hence the Vedas gives way to Vedanta - the end of all that can ever be learned, known or understood about it...thus we reach the limitations of Buddhism.

Yeah, so who cast that net again? :p

In many places, we read that there are two paths to realization: Contemplation and Meditation. Where contemplation is an active mind working, which is evolution (e in Latin means 'out of,' and volution means circling a center), meditation reflects the light back from resting and stilling the mind of our lower nature. Evolution is relative to Ecstasy (ec means 'out of,' and stasis means rest). The essence of this is to say that we meditation relative to our mind acting or resting. Both are meditation.

To get this straight, realize that you are meditating this life from a higher plane of existence. As a dream is parallel to this projection in a lower form, life itself is a dream from our higher nature (meditation). You are literally meditating the entire reality into existence. Shifting this process, we meditate down here in the lower Gunas (Rajas is time and Tamas is form). Meditation here allows Rajas and Tamas to still, revealing the Sattva mind in true being. Self-reflection is light shined back to Sattva, allowing the person below to know as he is known. This is the dweller on the threshhold waking up to the higher nature driving the chariot so to speak. Right now, we do not know as we are known. Meeting yourself in the image is recognition from each side of identity.

This can be realized by the higher mind waking up from contemplation below, which is the job of Manu (to think). Two songs come to mind.

LINK

LINK

If you know this, then you know the identity of Harry, Dumbledore and Voldemort as the same person (Present, Future and Past lower nature). See it in this clip:

LINK

When Jacob asks the identity of the LORD (Ishvara) he wrestled with, the Lord avoids the answer. Who is he? Jacob's higher mind. When the student is ready, the master appears. If you know the identity of both as the same person in and out of time, you know the rest.

Two paths from the train station. Contemplate actively or meditation from stillness of this lower mind. Either way, you are the same Being (Sattva) in a state of meditation (thinking).

.