At what point do you let go?

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

oceanbreeze - I can't comment on that, I have never been in a relationship. But I'm talking about my child's murder here and that's on a wholly different level. Serious crimes, such as the murder of one's child, the rape of a loved one, are on a completely different level than getting betrayed by a lover.

I'm fully aware of what you're talking about and the differences between the two.

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

But look where Western society is - something went obviously wrong with the "forgive everyone no matter what they do". It's because of such an attitude that Western society is overrun with crime, welfare dependent unmarried mothers, drugs, violence, perversions.

So something went wrong because such things, whilst they also exist in other societies, they don't exist on that unprecedented level as in the West and they are most certainly not being promoted the way Western society does.

Almost nobody in the west has the attitude of "forgive everyone no matter what." Do you want to see proof? Look at the news in America and see what's going on. All you have to do is look and see. So bringing that up is rather silly because its rarely ever applied. There is not even an effort to try. Nobody i know even talks like that.

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

Again, I'm talking about crimes here, and perversions, not a lover cheating. Saying that though, why should we brush off things like a lover betraying someone and breaking that person's heart? Is this not also a crime? Does this not drive some people into suicide? It does - let me assure you it does!

And driving someone to suicide - is murder.

If a person feels driven to suicide after a heartbreaking relationship then to me they are childish adults who haven't grown up. But in a childish society it comes of no surprise that people would justify revenge and shift blame on others for their emotional issues.

So...at what point do you let go? Maybe not holding on to begin with.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by LibbyScorp

Haha. Revenge always made me feel like garbage in the relationships I've had in my life even if it felt right at the time. Very short lived fulfillment. I'd rather cut the ****. I do see the appeal and temptation people get, though. Have experienced it.

I agree. Obviously my post was meant in jest. I notice when i am able to forgive, more so forgive myself, the feeling is quite liberating.

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

Elfin - Believe me, in the UK crime does pay, and very much so. Just think of how the grooming gangs are being protected by the system. This goes on to this day and anyone who dares to speak up about it, gets into trouble. Not the criminals though. That says it all about the system in the UK. I know that system very well by the way, but can't go into more detail here because this is not the right place to do so.

Not in my eyes sweet star. Not in my eyes . And it never will .

[Pequena Estrela]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

I'm fully aware of what you're talking about and the differences between the two.



Almost nobody in the west has the attitude of "forgive everyone no matter what." Do you want to see proof? Look at the news in America and see what's going on. All you have to do is look and see. So bringing that up is rather silly because its rarely ever applied. There is not even an effort to try. Nobody i know even talks like that.



If a person feels driven to suicide after a heartbreaking relationship then to me they are childish adults who haven't grown up. But in a childish society it comes of no surprise that people would justify revenge and shift blame on others for their emotional issues.

So...at what point do you let go? Maybe not holding on to begin with.

oceanbreeze - maybe you don't know anyone who talks like that, but most people in the West do. Just look at all the constant "we have to be understanding" when someone commits a crime, and "he just had a bad childhood". People who make no effort to support themselves get given welfare, yet those who really are in need are so often denied essential support. People who engage in perversions get given preferential treatment, and nobody is allowed to say anything against them. A lot of murderers and rapists get let off under the excuse of "he had an abusive childhood" or "he is mentally ill".

I've been involved with the justice system so I know!

As for calling people who become suicidal after getting their hearts broken childish - actually I find your attitude rather disgusting! There are thousands of people who get betrayed, cheated on, used, scammed, abused. Such things are extremely distressing and create unspeakable pain, at least to people who have a good heart. Maybe it wouldn't create pain in people who have no emotions, ie psychopaths and narcissists, but normal people suffer terribly from such events. And some people, especially when they get hurt in this way numerous times - not unheard of noways in this selfish society - just can't take any more!

If you don't feel tremendous pain when such things happen, you might want to ask yourself if you suffer from a lack of emotions because to shake something like this off as if it were nothing is not normal!

I certainly would not want to be involved with someone who considers heartbreak as something one should just get over. I've had my fair share of heartbreak, even if not from relationships. I've had people yell at me "what do you want, just get over it". I cannot express in words my disgust for such people!

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

oceanbreeze - maybe you don't know anyone who talks like that, but most people in the West do. Just look at all the constant "we have to be understanding" when someone commits a crime, and "he just had a bad childhood". People who make no effort to support themselves get given welfare, yet those who really are in need are so often denied essential support. People who engage in perversions get given preferential treatment, and nobody is allowed to say anything against them. A lot of murderers and rapists get let off under the excuse of "he had an abusive childhood" or "he is mentally ill".

I've been involved with the justice system so I know!

You were implying that an attitude of forgiveness leads to violence. If a person is violent obviously they don't have an attitude of forgiveness. Its one thing to say "be forgiving" and quite another to live by that. Most don't. Being understanding works both ways. You understand the victim and the predator. You place yourself in both their shoes. That's understanding. Again its one thing to say this or that and quite another live by it. A lot of criminals get let go because of lack of income to house them. This is what happened where i currently live. Not because they had a bad childhood. That is silly.

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

As for calling people who become suicidal after getting their hearts broken childish - actually I find your attitude rather disgusting! There are thousands of people who get betrayed, cheated on, used, scammed, abused. Such things are extremely distressing and create unspeakable pain, at least to people who have a good heart. Maybe it wouldn't create pain in people who have no emotions, ie psychopaths and narcissists, but normal people suffer terribly from such events. And some people, especially when they get hurt in this way numerous times - not unheard of noways in this selfish society - just can't take any more!

If you don't feel tremendous pain when such things happen, you might want to ask yourself if you suffer from a lack of emotions because to shake something like this off as if it were nothing is not normal!

Not about whether it creates pain or not. Its is very natural to feel hurt after a break-up or betrayal. But "offing" yourself because of it is a childish reaction. It is selfish. You are only thinking of yourself and not those it will effect.

If you are a vengeful person i would rather you "own it" and not try to justify yourself and make it right. I use to be a very vindictive person myself and am more and more growing out of that. Its all about letting things go.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by LibbyScorp

I'm interested to hear your experiences of when you knew it was time to let go of someone you loved deeply. At what point did you develop the strength to leave? What was the breaking point? How many mistakes did it take for you to endure or make before realizing you were outgrowing the love and the lessons? How long did you hold out hope? Did it end on a bad note or was it mutual?

You just know when it is over.

Romantic love changes to mere friendship love or to caring feeling. (or to indifference)
And every time when you talk to or encounter with that person, you just feel so glad that the "romantic" relationship has ended with that person because you just do not feel it anymore.
You can not fake the feeling when it is not there.

When I divorced my ex husband, I was unsure if my decision was the right one since he did not want the divorce. But I realized that I stopped fighting for us and I did not value our marriage anymore. Then I knew that there was not a fix for our marriage. I had learned my lessons in that marriage so it was time to leave that marriage.
I was grateful for the lessons through him and through the marriage.

Now, every single time when I talk to him, I am so so so glad that I am not his wife. (Yes, we still talk sometimes and we get together occasionally to catch up.)
I care for him and I will always be his friend for life.
Oh man, I can never never be with him as a couple.
He is who he is and I don't have to work around or to change him anymore.

So, you just know when it is over.

[Ziusudra]

Dup dup.....

[Pequena Estrela]

Originally Posted by Ziusudra

You just know when it is over.

Romantic love changes to mere friendship love or to caring feeling. (or to indifference)
And every time when you talk to or encounter with that person, you just feel so glad that the "romantic" relationship has ended with that person because you just do not feel it anymore.
You can not fake the feeling when it is not there.

When I divorced my ex husband, I was unsure if my decision was the right one since he did not want the divorce. But I realized that I stopped fighting for us and I did not value our marriage anymore. Then I knew that there was not a fix for our marriage. I had learned my lessons in that marriage so it was time to leave that marriage.
I was grateful for the lessons through him and through the marriage.

Now, every single time when I talk to him, I am so so so glad that I am not his wife. (Yes, we still talk sometimes and we get together occasionally to catch up.)
I care for him and I will always be his friend for life.
Oh man, I can never never be with him as a couple.
He is who he is and I don't have to work around or to change him anymore.

So, you just know when it is over.

Ziusudra - sounds like your ex husband was not the right one for you. When you find true love, that love never dies. There is never indifference, never the wish to be apart from that person. True love lasts a lifetime - and beyond.

[Wilderness]

Possible it can be helpful to know from the very start or recognise that things can end, if the relationship ended with time, so does the pain with time. You can process at your own pace.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by Pequena Estrela

Ziusudra - sounds like your ex husband was not the right one for you. When you find true love, that love never dies. There is never indifference, never the wish to be apart from that person. True love lasts a lifetime - and beyond.

Actually, my ex husband was the right person for me at the time when we met and during the first part of our marriage. We both had gained and learned from our marriage.

About true love..... hmm.
Love is not so concrete. It flows, with different shapes, colors, and depths.
I agreed that love can last a lifetime and beyond.
However, for a physical and romantic relationship to last a lifetime, it takes more than just enduring love.