Deep discussions on Buddhist philosophies

[Gem]

Lets start with the primary tenets of the 4 noble truths (4NT). These are: 1) there is suffering; 2) suffering is caused; 3) suffering can end and; 4) there is a way to end suffering.


"Birth is suffering, old age is suffering, (sickness is suffering), death is suffering, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and distress are suffering, the association with something that one does not like is suffering, the disassociation with something that one does like is suffering, not to get what one desires is suffering"


Discuss.

[sky]

In early Buddhists Scriptures Buddha never used the word ' Suffering ' rather Dukkha which has many different meanings.

It's been accepted by all Buddhists that the ' Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta ' is the first Teaching given by Buddha and contains what is now called the Four Noble Truths.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....011.than.html

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

In early Buddhists Scriptures Buddha never used the word ' Suffering ' rather Dukkha which has many different meanings.

It's been accepted by all Buddhists that the ' Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta ' is the first Teaching given by Buddha and contains what is now called the Four Noble Truths.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....011.than.html

Of course, Buddha didn't use the word 'suffering' because he didn't speak English...

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

Lets start with the primary tenets of the 4 noble truths (4NT). These are: 1) there is suffering; 2) suffering is caused; 3) suffering can end and; 4) there is a way to end suffering.


"Birth is suffering, old age is suffering, (sickness is suffering), death is suffering, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and distress are suffering, the association with something that one does not like is suffering, the disassociation with something that one does like is suffering, not to get what one desires is suffering"


Discuss.

So a seeker who wishes to end suffering, it would seem more ideal to stop believing they are suffering by changing the view of suffering itself? They could Change their mindset to one of, “this is how it is, I accept everything moving through myself and process, i surrender to this process, I am moving forward to see and know more of myself and life”

That’s a lot to retrain ones mind with, but with suffering there is often a great deal of self sabotage going on within the subconscious process. So for those in need of a healthier foundation to work from it often supports rather than continue to believe in suffering. Change the way you see your process to both accept and overcome through ones inner process.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Of course, Buddha didn't use the word 'suffering' because he didn't speak English...

Exactly , that's the reason it shouldn't be used.


The accepted translation of the First Noble Truth taken from the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta.



jātipi dukkhā... Birth is dukkha

jarāpi dukkhā... Old age is dukkha

byādhipi dukkho... Sickness is dukkha

maraṇampi dukkhaṃ... Death is dukkha

appiyehi sampayogo dukkho... Association with the disliked is dukkha

piyehi vippayogo dukkho... Separation from the beloved is dukkha

yampicchaṃ na labhati tampi dukkhaṃ Not obtaining one's wishes is dukkha




Dukkha has a much more extensive meaning than the English word suffering.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

So a seeker who wishes to end suffering, it would seem more ideal to stop believing they are suffering by changing the view of suffering itself? They could Change their mindset to one of, “this is how it is, I accept everything moving through myself and process, i surrender to this process, I am moving forward to see and know more of myself and life”

That’s a lot to retrain ones mind with, but with suffering there is often a great deal of self sabotage going on within the subconscious process. So for those in need of a healthier foundation to work from it often supports rather than continue to believe in suffering. Change the way you see your process to both accept and overcome through ones inner process.

In Buddhist ways there is the first truth, there is suffering, and we know that is true because we suffer. People know that, but they don't know what causes it and they think their circumstances are 'cause'. Looking deeply one can find out they they create their own suffering and then they know what the 'cause' is. By seeing how one causes ones own suffering, they can cease doing that, but it's not so simply. People see how they cause suffering but they are compelled and cant stop it, so they have to discover a 'way' to stop generating their own misery and spreading it to others. In Buddhism, the discovery of the truth of things, the understanding of natures law, the insight, is the 'way' to purification, resolve suffering, overcome sorrow and lamentation and attain nirvana...

[winter light]

Originally Posted by Gem

Lets start with the primary tenets of the 4 noble truths (4NT). These are: 1) there is suffering; 2) suffering is caused; 3) suffering can end and; 4) there is a way to end suffering.


"Birth is suffering, old age is suffering, (sickness is suffering), death is suffering, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and distress are suffering, the association with something that one does not like is suffering, the disassociation with something that one does like is suffering, not to get what one desires is suffering"


Discuss.

Deep discussion is always welcome. At first I did not think there would be much to say as the truths seemed self evident and I was in agreement. But I can share my perspective.

The nature of the world is change. We act in the world with a choice. In order to choose we must embrace. After our action the embrace decays. So whatever one appears to gain is lost. If one embraces the process instead of the event, while knowing where it leads (awareness), the suffering will end.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by winter light

If one embraces the process instead of the event, while knowing where it leads (awareness), the suffering will end.

***

embracing process instead of event = flowing presence of innocence in the now continuum

Knowing where it leads = memory drawn anticipation (ego limitation)

suffering seems to be attributable to association with anticipated outcomes

***

[Gem]

To me there seems to be a fine point of balance and as long as one is consciously aware of that fulcrum there is aware peace of mind, but it doesn't take much to disturb the poise because it is very intricate and extraordinarily subtle, and if it is disturbed too much, one loses awareness being distracted into the reactive processes that disrupt it. I consider what is called "ignorance" to be this distraction from that balance point, so you don't know the peaceful poise of the mind, and one has to re-find it and resolve to be not so easily distracted henceforth.

[Gem]

It seems the discussions on the suffering (if we should use that word) and the core subject of the 4 noble truths has petered out (sorry Peter, nothing personal ), and I understand it's a nuanced subject that affects us all personally and is very true to life.


It doesn't seem so bad, and really, a bit of suffering is nothing to be worried about, but the layers of it can go deep deep down to a desperate clinging which we don't even know is there. The spiritual inquiry can reveal the deepest fears, and terror of the precipice of no return.


Such a discussion on suffering, and may I call it suffering when mentioning its abject origin? I know that's a place no one wants to go and everyone is avoiding the hard obstacles to our liberation where the nexus of our bondage is deep rooted.


This is what comes to mind. My mood maybe dark but in the processes of meditation one comes across deep seated misery, and this is the subject of suffering, so why would I be bright and feign Buddha-like dispositions when that sort of pretense is only an iron cover for the truth of myself.



The problem I present to you is an affront on one hand and an invitation on the other... but either way, you have to be yourself to be truthful, show just a little colour and come out into the light just a little bit, and they will judge you, they'll beat you over the head with the Canon, they'll make you wrong to be right themselves, and all of that, but never cower to those who only keep you in a shadow because they don't want to show themselves to the larger light of conscious awareness - and I guess we all have things in the shadows which we aren't prepared to bring out, but the light is bright in here and the force is strong with this one teehee.