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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Judaism

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  #41  
Old 27-09-2019, 01:19 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Your "reason" is classic !
Your words always rises my spirit, thank you.
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He dipped the pen into the ink and then faltered for just a second. A tremor had gone through his bowels. To mark the paper was the decisive act. In small clumsy letters he wrote: ........... April 4th, 1984.
.................................................. .................................................. ............
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  #42  
Old 27-09-2019, 03:12 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Originally Posted by Altair
But 7L, what is the ''pleasure'' that I do describe??
I am not advocating some lavish, over-indulgent lifestyle or anything. Never have advocated for such, although I think it's fine if others want to do so, provided it does not cause harm to other humans or animals. I'm rather modest myself in lifestyle, and also do not partake in such things as meat, alcohol, coffee. Pleasure is simply satisfaction/enjoyment, and nothing more. So it can be anything you want it to be, and I think that's a good starting point. And in that sense we are all pleasure seekers, just towards different things, either beneficial or harmful.

Back to ''idolatry''. I feel the same about that one. Idolatry can be anything you want it to be. Some religions just decide what is and what isn't, but to another religion the worship of a personal god, even without an image representation, can be viewed as idolatrous. I don't really see any important difference, and I view any physical 'idol' as just a useful focus point for worship or spiritual practice. It shouldn't matter if someone else worships ''idols''. What really matters are the fruits of any belief or spiritual practice.
Altair
Not to be too nitpicky...but...

I don't resonate with worship of a physical being...or non-physical being like a guide, a master, or a transcendental. It's neither helpful nor necessary and TBH I see it as a simplistic and often harmful way to put one's personal ownership onto others. Why not simply directly ask for and directly seek guidance, and then look to others as examples of true spiritual virtue (like the transcendentals) but not as gods or objects of worship?

Also, as you discuss, it feels like you still may have it backwards. It's not the seeking of pleasure (even from doing good stuff) that is the focus, IMO. It's doing and being authentic love. Lovingkindness and equanimity. That is the focus. One outcome - and NOT the main thing itself -- is a resultant sublime joy of being, which is another way of saying it is simply your ground of being at centre. It is just WHAT YOU ARE Many miss it entirely if they are looking for big feels or a rush or a high.

But if we align with centre with a focus on being and doing authentic love, then what we are is simply that...what the Vedic mystics refer to as ananda...and which we would call both ahava and yirah...the sublime joy which is the ground of being. And without which, the universe cannot exist.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #43  
Old 28-09-2019, 12:02 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Altair
Not to be too nitpicky...but...

I don't resonate with worship of a physical being...or non-physical being like a guide, a master, or a transcendental. It's neither helpful nor necessary and TBH I see it as a simplistic and often harmful way to put one's personal ownership onto others. Why not simply directly ask for and directly seek guidance, and then look to others as examples of true spiritual virtue (like the transcendentals) but not as gods or objects of worship?


Hazrat Inayat Khan once said, "The ideal is the means; breaking it is the goal".

Hence, I don't criticize people who "look to others as examples" (as you wrote) or even worship them (temporarily). My sense is that it's just a stage until one becomes a light unto one's self.
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  #44  
Old 28-09-2019, 03:18 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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7L, what you may grasp at here is the underlying sense of an eternal source, which as a consequence of whatever reason [karma? experiencing the universe for adventure's sake?] is often experienced momentarily. Many forms of pleasures can be misguided but the underlying desire is one of being in that moment. You are adding a layer on top of what I mentioned. I don't see any cause here for disagreement.

As for worshipping representations and images; in a way this does relate to what I just said previously. The image/representation is a temporary means, something that [may] change, but there's an underlying sense or experience [possibly] of connecting to something greater. In any case, I think there's a lot more to ''idolatry'' than that it's just about worshipping something physical or imaginary. That's how I feel about it when people worship deities, or the Sun and Moon, and so forth. There's much more to it than physical worship. It can for instance also be about focus and remembering what you like to be(come). There's a lot to it, and you'll have to ask each individual person what it means to them. It can be as complicated [or simplistic] as you want it to be. It's in the eye of the beholder.

The purely physical aspect is just the surface, but still I think that is, from a cultural point of view, also a beautiful part of human creativity..
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  #45  
Old 29-09-2019, 04:26 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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If one 'worships' in truth and love, idolatry disappears.
__________________
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He dipped the pen into the ink and then faltered for just a second. A tremor had gone through his bowels. To mark the paper was the decisive act. In small clumsy letters he wrote: ........... April 4th, 1984.
.................................................. .................................................. ............
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