Sufism

[002 Cents]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

From most media reports, it seems that Sufism is not considered the mainstream Islam.

Perhaps it is similar to Master Eickhart, a Christian mystic, is probably dissimilar to the teachings of mainstream Christianity.

There are Sufism sects, though, I believe,like there are Christian sects such as the Benedictine monks who focus more on prayer and silence.

Again - I presume there are these people, but they are not "mainstream" i.e. the majority

Thanks, Floatsy :)

I think that is exactly what I was looking for.

I do have a book by Eckhart Tolle. I was even reading it a little bit yesterday recognizing the parallels between his teachings and Sufism. Namely the death of the Ego.

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

till you become dimwit like famous sufis who started saying
i see God inside Dogs and Donkeys
instead of saying I see the work of God in those Animals

we dont have God inside us
if we did then we are Gods
but rather we have spirit of God inside which makes us alive
just because you use battery doesn't mean you own the factory
or you share anything with owner

this is why sufism is not for feeble minds
such as Rumi who in his poems ended up getting drunk with God
Sufism better Avoided if you are not level headed

I am of the belief that God is omnipresent. That he is in fact in us and all around us. The creator of all existence, all knowing, all seeing... How can he be anything but?

Certainly, where it pertains to divine love, it is more easily recognized in creatures not as easily corrupted as man... hence the dogs and the donkeys. At least that is how I would interpret that.

Not to say that in recognizing those attributes one "owns the factory" but rather embraces Allah as he embraces each of us and strives to walk a path of divine love that echos out into the world.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

till you become dimwit like famous sufis who started saying
i see God inside Dogs and Donkeys
instead of saying I see the work of God in those Animals

we dont have God inside us
if we did then we are Gods
but rather we have spirit of God inside which makes us alive
just because you use battery doesn't mean you own the factory
or you share anything with owner

this is why sufism is not for feeble minds
such as Rumi who in his poems ended up getting drunk with God
Sufism better Avoided if you are not level headed

Sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of Sufism, and with anger too.

"Sufism better Avoided if you are not level headed"

It is the intellectual mind that seeks to control, be "level headed" and otherwise distinguish and categorize.

Rumi is a Lover and in all good Lovers, they drink from the Spirit of Truth.

What more beauty can you ask for?

That Mystic traditions are feared and in the minority is perhaps to be expected through the Ages.

It is said that even the Bible had all the Mysticism and Meditation stripped as it is easier to control people through systems of belief and dogma.

Fortunately, the proliferation of information on the internet, and schools which respect and encourage Silence and True Contemplation are still available for those with open hearts and minds.

Namaste and no offence intended.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by 002 Cents

Thanks, Floatsy :)

I think that is exactly what I was looking for.

I do have a book by Eckhart Tolle. I was even reading it a little bit yesterday recognizing the parallels between his teachings and Sufism. Namely the death of the Ego.

Yes I have always found it Infinitely Beautiful that all Major Traditions, once distilled to the Level of Clarity/Compassion/Truth, are the same in its very essence.

Men may label it with different words, but when we drink, we know the feeling of quenched thirst at last.

Namaste and many blessings to you, 002 Cents.

[Interuniversalism]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

From most media reports, it seems that Sufism is not considered the mainstream Islam.

Perhaps it is similar to Master Eickhart, a Christian mystic, is probably dissimilar to the teachings of mainstream Christianity.

There are Sufism sects, though, I believe,like there are Christian sects such as the Benedictine monks who focus more on prayer and silence.

Again - I presume there are these people, but they are not "mainstream" i.e. the majority

Yes Sufism is not Islam at all. You can extract the same substance by purifying many different plants for example. Sufism is the core element of all religins that has been hidden under so many different interpretions and wrong impressions added to them over the time making them reflect so much confilictions that rapped up around the core truth.
"Connection to the source". Sufism believes every human being is equally entitled to experience enlightenment and what is called presence. In the process we need to get help from those who have genuenly experienced it. But this following is to a certain extend and from there one is alone. And after we get there we find the urge and need to help others.
In Sufism they don't tell you to believe first then be fed the rest. Rather you believe after you experience yourself.
If you read poems by some sufies you feel something but can't put your finger on. It touches something deep within you. That feeling is just the beginning.

[Please Leave Me]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

Sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of Sufism, and with anger too.

"Sufism better Avoided if you are not level headed"

It is the intellectual mind that seeks to control, be "level headed" and otherwise distinguish and categorize.

Rumi is a Lover and in all good Lovers, they drink from the Spirit of Truth.

What more beauty can you ask for?

That Mystic traditions are feared and in the minority is perhaps to be expected through the Ages.

It is said that even the Bible had all the Mysticism and Meditation stripped as it is easier to control people through systems of belief and dogma.

Fortunately, the proliferation of information on the internet, and schools which respect and encourage Silence and True Contemplation are still available for those with open hearts and minds.

Namaste and no offence intended.

the reason am muslim
is not because fantasies beauty wishful thinking or endless love
am muslim due to logic truth and facts

Rumi to me was nothing more than foolish poet
yes be level headed least you end up following blindly
based on spirituality and wishful thinking
Mohammed was man of logic so did the Sahaba
who came after him and ruled
not one among them spitted nonsense Rumi said

i rather follow those people who maintained Islam strong foundation logically
than follow a raving poet illogically
i do understand sufism very well
which is exactly why i said be level headed or avoid it

[002 Cents]

I will say that some of what initially attracted me to Islam was reading translations of pieces from the Qur'an. That feeling that was mentioned earlier I associate with what triggered my curiosity about Islam in the first place. If in depth exploration of Sufism is going to take me away from experiencing Islam the way it is meant to be practiced and experienced then I cannot. As I still have much to learn about Islam and I didn't start this journey with a half hearted interest. I spoke to the founder of a near by Mosque yesterday and he expressed that one can benefit from the use of Sufism in Islam but that there are also non-Islamic attributes to be wary of.

I appreciate all the feedback.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by Interuniversalism

Yes Sufism is not Islam at all. You can extract the same substance by purifying many different plants for example. Sufism is the core element of all religins that has been hidden under so many different interpretions and wrong impressions added to them over the time making them reflect so much confilictions that rapped up around the core truth.
"Connection to the source". Sufism believes every human being is equally entitled to experience enlightenment and what is called presence. In the process we need to get help from those who have genuenly experienced it. But this following is to a certain extend and from there one is alone. And after we get there we find the urge and need to help others.
In Sufism they don't tell you to believe first then be fed the rest. Rather you believe after you experience yourself.
If you read poems by some sufies you feel something but can't put your finger on. It touches something deep within you. That feeling is just the beginning.

I didn't say Sufism is not Islam.

I said Sufism is not MAINSTREAM Islam.

In the same way that the contemplative mystic Christians are not MAINSTREAM Christian.

In terms of Sufism being experiential prior to a belief system, yes I concur. In my opinion, these are the best of teachings as they do not anchor people into fear based or dogma based teachings anchored in strict rules and observances.

But then again, most people are too fearful to step outside of these mainstream structures.

Blessings.

[Floatsy]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

the reason am muslim
is not because fantasies beauty wishful thinking or endless love
am muslim due to logic truth and facts

Rumi to me was nothing more than foolish poet
yes be level headed least you end up following blindly
based on spirituality and wishful thinking
Mohammed was man of logic so did the Sahaba
who came after him and ruled
not one among them spitted nonsense Rumi said

i rather follow those people who maintained Islam strong foundation logically
than follow a raving poet illogically
i do understand sufism very well
which is exactly why i said be level headed or avoid it

If you find that principles of love and peace and brotherhood with All is a 'risk', then I would certainly concur that it is to be avoided.

[Interuniversalism]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

I didn't say Sufism is not Islam.

I said Sufism is not MAINSTREAM Islam.

In the same way that the contemplative mystic Christians are not MAINSTREAM Christian.

In terms of Sufism being experiential prior to a belief system, yes I concur. In my opinion, these are the best of teachings as they do not anchor people into fear based or dogma based teachings anchored in strict rules and observances.

But then again, most people are too fearful to step outside of these mainstream structures.

Blessings.

I agree with you. They initially wanted to explain the same out of time and space experience and grasping it individualy, yet understand the unity that governs everything and nothingness. But when some people stick it to some out of reach extraordinary that cannot be realized by any other persons other than a prophet and setting rules which are actually imitations of the consequences of being there rather than the actual thing, just to obay so that you avoid pain in future then people look at reaching as impossible.

[Please Leave Me]

Originally Posted by Floatsy

If you find that principles of love and peace and brotherhood with All is a 'risk', then I would certainly concur that it is to be avoided.

i find illogical wishful thinking and naively following path
based on emotions with no brain is extreme risk
specially when far more knowledgeable people than you and me
and with bigger mind than us both got deluded by this
Rumi is perfect example of how smart people go stupid
yes a risk

but new agers with their wishful thinking and fantasies
they want something beautiful even if false to cling to
that is not how islamic teachings are

islam is religion of logic not mumble jumble and talismans etc

did you now some famous sufis said :we crossed oceans of knowledge prophets stood only at its shores

such arrogance yet you lack knowledge on subject
to know these details for people to claims they have more spritiual knowledge
than prophets