Horse meat the norm in the future (vision)?

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

And the land owners land that this would have cut thru thruout the U.S. is now protected. Much of which is farm land and their livelihood. I hear your point. Maybe it hasn't stopped production But maybe it has affected the company as a whole. In fact I am sure it has. Oil/sands is not a good thing.
In any case it is a win and a big one IMO and one initiated by the people which is wonderful thing to see.

It won't have affected the company at all, simply means they are looking to ship it from the coast of British Columbia to China maybe instead of you.

I agree entirely that this whole system of energy is rotten at this point, and that the plan probably is to wring every last drop out of the ground, and only then will the politicians and companies get serious about new ways of producing power.

That inventor Tesla apparently had either working models of machines to generate FREE power or at least workable ideas on how to do so, but didn't he die mysteriously or was hounded to death by the judicial system or other companies or someone and his discoveries disappeared? But it will take the extinction of polar bears and a few drowned coastal cities before real change happens and they scurry to be the first to achieve the next 'great idea' in energy.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by DebbyM

It won't have affected the company at all, simply means they are looking to ship it from the coast of British Columbia to China maybe instead of you.

I agree entirely that this whole system of energy is rotten at this point, and that the plan probably is to wring every last drop out of the ground, and only then will the politicians and companies get serious about new ways of producing power.

That inventor Tesla apparently had either working models of machines to generate FREE power or at least workable ideas on how to do so, but didn't he die mysteriously or was hounded to death by the judicial system or other companies or someone and his discoveries disappeared? But it will take the extinction of polar bears and a few drowned coastal cities before real change happens and they scurry to be the first to achieve the next 'great idea' in energy.

What I have noticed is that the human condition tends to only change when it has to. We are all human.
Hopefully we will grow because of all this and hopefully, we the ones who have grown beyond our condition to some degree, will have compassion on those who still suffer from the inabilty to change.
My wish is that eyes open because of all these problems.

Blessings, James

Originally Posted by DebbyM

That inventor Tesla apparently had either working models of machines to generate FREE power or at least workable ideas on how to do so, but didn't he die mysteriously or was hounded to death by the judicial system or other companies or someone and his discoveries disappeared? But it will take the extinction of polar bears and a few drowned coastal cities before real change happens and they scurry to be the first to achieve the next 'great idea' in energy.

He supposedly had ways of generating power and projecting it through the air without the need for wire, using the Earth itself as a gigantic dynamo. He ended up dying alone and poor in a hotel room, and the notes and plans that were with him when he passed where taken by the Government. Some were eventually released but many were not and claimed to be "lost."

At least that is how the story goes.

The truth is there are workable alternative fuel systems that are entirely doable. But they would put big oil on the chopping block, so until big oil becomes truly non-viable or something else forces the issue we're stuck with things as they are.

[BlueSky]

I think the global weather changes we have been experiencing will be seen as possibly due to pollution and might have an effect on looking for cleaner ways to replace things like oil........ but only time will tell.

James

Whiteshaman:

Global weather patterns have already shifted. Winter is already 2 weeks later on average, and spring is 2 weeks earlier on average here. The further northern regions have been noticing changes for decades, and only now are southern regions, say, northern, and middle america are feeling the changes. Think about the long texas drought, and floods and massive tornadoes in the bible belt, as well as unreliable hurricaine seasons. Plants are moving north, and further up mountains, and corals are moving north, and deeper into the ocean. History does repeat itself sometimes, as per the PETM (Pleiciocene - eocene Thermal Maximum:

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...th/kunzig-text

That article summs up 100% what we are doing, its actually quite scary. Just remember, climate change doesnt mean everything is getting warmer either.

Debby and SCibat - There are, and always has been other ways of producing energy. The only thing is so far, nothing is as cheap and easy to munipulate as oil. Oil perpetuates out food production, transport systems, every single bit of technology, and even medicine. Oil isnt only an energy producer, which we can replace quite easy. The problem lies when we need to find something to replace fertilizers, chemicals, lubricants, and all forms of plastic.

[norseman]

No such thing as Free Power !
"Energy cannot be created or destroyed".

Back in the 60's, I worked on a chemical plant manufacturing a fuel that was blended with petrol. The fuel was Methanol and the process combined Carbon Dioxide and water vapour catalytically. The blend was on general sale for a while. Pure methanol is used in dragsters, so it is a viable clean fuel but still not free - energy requirements of process were high.

Originally Posted by norseman

No such thing as Free Power !
"Energy cannot be created or destroyed".

Back in the 60's, I worked on a chemical plant manufacturing a fuel that was blended with petrol. The fuel was Methanol and the process combined Carbon Dioxide and water vapour catalytically. The blend was on general sale for a while. Pure methanol is used in dragsters, so it is a viable clean fuel but still not free - energy requirements of process were high.

Thats my point! We can create green energy, or capture renewable energy to run hydro, but so far we have NOTHING to replace the petroium based plastics that are in everything, and the petrolium based fertilizers that maked mass monocrop farms possible

[norseman]

"mass monocrop farms"

Good arguments why these are a bad thing. [especially G.M. crops]
Any thoughts ?

p.s. before I forget. Plastics, pharmaceuticals, etc could be based on coal, rather than oil. Zillions of tonnes in the UK and we know where it is. [e.g. 200 feet below my feet ]

Originally Posted by norseman

"mass monocrop farms"

Good arguments why these are a bad thing. [especially G.M. crops]
Any thoughts ?

p.s. before I forget. Plastics, pharmaceuticals, etc could be based on coal, rather than oil. Zillions of tonnes in the UK and we know where it is. [e.g. 200 feet below my feet ]

same problem a with oil environmental wise. Also, IIR it is much more costly to etract, and process coal, then it is oil. You could also make latex out of natural gas, but again, the same problems persist as with oil and coal. That is picking your poison, as well as not even solving anything, just delaying the inevitable.

[BlueSky]

Hey fellow gardeners.....be sure to watch two-bit gurus video that he posted yesterday showing his permaculture based garden.
Amazing!

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=26406