Gospel of Thomas

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by sky123

No Anthony Jesus is not saying only Males are Sons of God, what he is trying to say is that in the Spirit there is no gender.

In Scriptures God is always described as Male, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit but these words are just metaphors.

Now I'm curious, there are some things that are given as metaphors which brings about its literal meaning. I'm wondering what these metaphors are. I'm not saying you're wrong I just need help understanding your perspective. Don't take it personal because I also wonder what the metaphor would be if it was God the Mother, God the Daughter and God the Holy Spirit(female) would be. You might know that I see the Holy Spirit in the feminine and if we are to dig deeper into it I would say its in four parts, which is a representation of the four wives of Yaakubah.

[anthony c]

[quote=AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by anthony c

I'm confident you know more about this book and others than you think you know. That knowledge is just a seed that just needs nurturing. Before we get started in the friendly discussion these are just some of the tools I use. I've mentioned some of these before. I use the science of the philosophy of tacet knowledge. This basically means that there is a Speaker and a receiver. The speaker will convey a message, the receiver may or may not receive the conveyed message with the meaning and intent of the speaker. This is where we consider the readily available interpretations, I will then ignore those interpretations and sit in silence and wait for the inner voice(that we all have) to show me other views. It gets easier the more you do it and before you know it, its instant. There's the four levels of Hebrew understanding you should have a look just be careful of the interpretations. We Maori have our own four levels of understanding and as much as I don't like to translate it into English I will give it to you in its most basic form. This is used in speeches, songs and proverbs. And its a gathering of people, the song/proverb/speech is about different birds which symbolises people. Part of it goes like this "Gather up! Gather up! Gather up from Above, Gather up from Below, Gather up from Without and Gather up from WITHIN. So in order for one to GATHER from these four levels She/He must be able to understand each level. That understanding gets better the more you do it. I say four levels because its easier to digest. There's other tools I use that when I remember them I will post it.

Hi AHIYAH

Could you explain the technique to use your inner voice, like how to do it? I would like to give it a go as my ego keeps getting in the way.

[anthony c]

[quote=AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by anthony c

No need for apologies because some people observe only to strengthen the kingdom within themselves. So what youve just said is certainly your reality and I am not the one to say you are wrong. i agree with the light of consciousness, so the light of consciusness is a process which matures the more we delve INTO it. it could start with a faint light and grow into a brilliant light which is probably explained in the many religions and cultures. so what I mean is that since we all have a level of this light consciuosness and we meet another person also aware of this inner Kingdom its like being reacquainted with a long lost family(spiritual) member that is also on a similar spiritual journey. To me the Kingdom is everywhere and we must first learn that it is within and the realisation just grows from the inside out. I did a study on the Holy Spirit awhile back and tried to consider all views at the time. So one day I heard a random person refer to it as a she. Jsyk any male can represent her. She is mentioned in the first few verses of Proverbs 3. You'd be looking for the words "she is a tree of life". You'll have to connect the dots within you. Now the word Holy is technical buzz word that is used instead of the words 'set apart' which always prompts me to ask "set apart from what?". You are right in saying that the inner kingdom/light consciousness is the Holy Spirit/Tree of Life. And lastly the Kingdom within must be brought out just as Shevani Devi has said in post #9. The righteousness of the Kingdom of our Father must also materialise in this material world. Although it is called a New Heaven and a New Earth it is really a RENEWED Heaven and a RENEWED Earth. That means the abomination will be dealt with severely as in the next verse.

Not sure i understand this 100% so the renewed earth means there is going to be a new earth or is it that the current earth is just going to be people that are more advanced and life on earth going to change?? Could you explain more on the renewed earth and renewed heaven please?

So here's what a particular person/persons is/are doing.
Matthew 13:41
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.
That word angels you can translate as human messengers. The son of man is the same as saying the son of Adam. Yeshua symbolises the second son of Adam and the third son of Adam is already walking the Earth and they be in every nation.

Third son is already here wow do you know who he is and what he is doing here?

Thanks

[anthony c]

Originally Posted by sky123

No Anthony Jesus is not saying only Males are Sons of God, what he is trying to say is that in the Spirit there is no gender.

In Scriptures God is always described as Male, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit but these words are just metaphors.

The mind is always referred to as Female, and the spiritual Self is always referred to as Male in the Gospel of Thomas.

I just thought of it maybe Jesus was explaining to his disciples and cause they are all male he said sons of God. Just a thought.

[AHIYAH]

[quote=anthony c]

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

Hi AHIYAH

Could you explain the technique to use your inner voice, like how to do it? I would like to give it a go as my ego keeps getting in the way.

Its a very long story and according to the bibles and other books I did some very bad things. Long story short I found my way into a church.it went well for a while and I spent a lot of time reading the bible, like days on end. So then I started noticing that the church I was at and what I was reading didn't line up so I asked questions and noticed I got the cold shoulder and didnt know why at the time so I left and as it happens I became a church hopper because of the same cold shoulder. Little did I know I was asking questions that went against what they stood for. So while sorting through my mother's books I happened upon one that had the Hebrew AlephBeit(alphabet) so I started practising it and didnt get very far. It so happens that the very last church I attended was also trying to read in Hebrew and they put me onto another assembly a Messianic(no Rabbis) assembly that taught Hebrew in its classic form in the Sephardi dialect and there is where all my previous questions were answered. That's where I picked up the four levels of Hebrew understanding which later opened my eyes to my own cultures four levels of understanding. So everything went well and so I found myself in a Christian forum and I just wanted to discuss the Torah and because I was green behind the ears I kept on being shut down and yes I was made out to be a Pharisee. This angered me immensely and darkness set in so I read the bible with urgency to get rid of any gainsay. Then a few scriptures came to mind like how in Revelations it speaks of the beast sending a flood from his mouth and realised why people opposed me and discussing the Torah. I am no longer with that assembly but have the deepest respect for them. While there though I heard of an ancient school of thought that can use what the enemy has added to a script against them or even use what they have taken out against them. There were many other thoughts similar to this that you hear when you observe what people are saying. So about the ego and it getting in the way, you've just answered it for yourself, eventually the ego must allow the inner voice to do her thing. So it basically dies. One must sit in silence and observe whats going on. So to humour myself I will take both sides of an argument and argue for and against to myself now there is a for which is also an against likewise there is an against which is actually for. Things become clear the more you do this. I've seen it done even in this forum and don't ask me to point it out. I have reasons. I hope I didn't bore. Lol

[AHIYAH]

[quote=anthony c]

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

Not sure i understand this 100% so the renewed earth means there is going to be a new earth or is it that the current earth is just going to be people that are more advanced and life on earth going to change?? Could you explain more on the renewed earth and renewed heaven please?



Third son is already here wow do you know who he is and what he is doing here?

Thanks

So after this judgement below is laid the natural Earth will return to its former state.
Revelations 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
This can only happen when the Heavens realise who they are and return to their former estate and that can't happen until after the Earth has opened her mouth and swallows up that flood that the beast sends from his mouth.

As for the identity of the third son of man its better for you to sit in silence and observe what THEY are saying. Doing this will make you a leader rather than a follower because as the bibles states "all will know from the least of THEM to the greatest of THEM". It also says "if you accept a Prophet you will accept a Prophets reward".
Here's my interpretation of what you've probably read.
For GOD so loved the Earth that he sent his only begotten Son, the one that was begotten from the Curse/Dead because of that nation's disobedience. He sent that Son or rather his words into all the Earth to find that other lost Son to tell him that the curse has been taken out of the way and gave him commandments of what to do to free his brother from bondage. Makes sense?

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by django

Whatever my reason it is still a genuine question, if the answer requires that a person relinquish critical thinking that would be interesting in general anyway.

I'm not sure why you keep saying 'OT', that's the old testament, I'm more familiar by far with the new testament. I would have no problem whatsoever acknowledging contradictions in the old or new testament, these things are written by people, nothing is actually written by Jesus, some of what he said was remembered but a lot would have been embellished and some maybe even made up completely to consolidate an authors perspective. I think it's better by far to just be upfront about all of these texts.

Did you just say that the Christians BUGGERED IT UP? Not in so many words? That's cool. I'm glad because I was wondering why you just talked about the Gnostics and how they BUGGERED IT UP. it took a little while but we got there in the end. I'm not that familiar with the Gnostic Gospels but can you show me exactly where they supposedly BUGGERED IT UP?

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by django

In Thomas and the gnostic material in general sometimes males and females have to become neither male or female, sometimes females have to become males, are both statements meant to be equivalent? Or does it change according to each particular gospel? How do gnostics make sense of this contradiction?

Got any examples? I'm guessing its a contextual matter but I'll wait and see what you produce.

[django]

Originally Posted by AHIYAH

Got any examples? I'm guessing its a contextual matter but I'll wait and see what you produce.

(114) ...I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven...

versus

(22) ... when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male is not male and the female not female...

My question is why would Mary be made male resembling actual males when in other places gnostics aim for being 'not-male' and 'not-female'. It doesn't make sense, nor does making Mary male make sense if God is ungendered.

[AHIYAH]

Originally Posted by django

(114) ...I will lead her that I may make her male, in order that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven...

versus

(22) ... when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male is not male and the female not female...

My question is why would Mary be made male resembling actual males when in other places gnostics aim for being 'not-male' and 'not-female'. It doesn't make sense, nor does making Mary male make sense if God is ungendered.

Sorry I do not know where this is from and I don't know why you mentioned Mary. It seems to me that it is a play on words. (114) is speaking about the Spirit(she) which is a representation of the four wives of Yaakubah(Jacob) and he is obviously addressing some males.
(22) sounds about right and its a merger but the Masculine is the Judgement and the Nurturing(wisdom) is the Feminine. You may or may not need to observe the four levels of understanding that can be found in many places, and that is just a basic tool.
So here's my take, we are to listen to our Mothers' voice to guide us in Wisdom to know the way to the Kingdom. Once in the Kingdom and you're in a particular place in that Kingdom you will also know why the Judgement Seat is there and belongs to Our Father. So with the Wisdom of the Holy/Living/Set Apart Spirit we better adhere to it before the Father lays Judgement.