isha upanishad commentary

[handy guy]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

... with the ultimate Satguru being one's own Higher Self. Do you agree?

So I'd say that the saying, "jiva is Siva" means that ultimately jiva is Siva, without the possible connotation or context being taken as being one's own as in their particular self.

Also, as I'm pretty sure that many here are familiar with the idea that mind or the mental realm is important but it is not enough to get free of the mind or the mental realm, yet with the mind being something that I'd say most of us take ourselves to be.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by handy guy

So I'd say that the saying, "jiva is Siva" means that ultimately jiva is Siva, without the possible connotation or context being taken as being one's own as in their particular self.

Also, as I'm pretty sure that many here are familiar with the idea that mind or the mental realm is important but it is not enough to get free of the mind or the mental realm, yet with the mind being something that I'd say most of us take ourselves to be.

I agree that there are many who identify with the mind.

Thank you for your response.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by handy guy

I'd say that sounds like a different, "new-age" type of context.

anyway are you familiar with the traditional Hindu context and meaning of Satguru?

I am more interested in Truth than in discussing labels such as "new age" or "traditional Hindu". I'll leave such discussions to you. They are no longer of interest to me.

[handy guy]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I am more interested in Truth than in discussing labels such as "new age" or "traditional Hindu". I'll leave such discussions to you. They are no longer of interest to me.

there are various vehicles....which are different....and thus they reach different realizations and truths.

Do they all end up at the same Truth? Some say they do which sounds plausible. (at least at the end of this long cosmic cycle?) Anyway since you sound like an expert on the matter and are apparently beyond the use or need of vehicles, tell us- do the truths and vehicles of both Buddhism and Hinduism reach the "Self"? One answer from many Vedic based Self realized Satguru's (and many Buddhist Lama's) is no, they do not.

For instance Swami Lakshman Joo, a K.S. Satguru, said they do not.
Btw, anyone else is welcome to jump in with their take...

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by handy guy

there are various vehicles....which are different....and thus they reach different realizations and truths.

Do they all end up at the same Truth? Some say they do which sounds plausible. (at least at the end of this long cosmic cycle?) Anyway since you sound like an expert on the matter and are apparently beyond the use or need of vehicles, tell us- do the truths and vehicles of both Buddhism and Hinduism reach the "Self"? One answer from many Vedic based Self realized Satguru's (and many Buddhist Lama's) is no, they do not.

For instance Swami Lakshman Joo, a K.S. Satguru, said they do not.
Btw, anyone else is welcome to jump in with their take...

Namaste.

This is going to be very personal and also difficult to explain.

When most people think "Shiva", they think of a formless, all-pervading energy.... of Consciousness itself, which is what everybody is at their core..All thanks to Adi Shankaracharya who composed Atma Shatakam..."Chidananda Rupah.. Shivoham... Shivoham".

Even Sadhguru (Jaggi Vasudev) says that Shiva means "that which is not"...When the word, "Shiva" actually means AUSPICIOUS ONE!...also, if Shiva means "that which is not", then just what IS that 112 ft bust of this "thing" outside Isha Foundation HQ? because it cannot be Shiva, can it?

What is that thing dancing outside of CERN LHC? Nah..That cannot be Shiva, because Shiva does not exist!

I mean, while MOST people are at the level of associating Shiva with a formless, endless energy a.k.a JYOTIR LINGAM, I am still stuck, I guess, associating Shiva with His Puranic, Saguna form...You know, the One with the blue throat (Neelkantha) who has the crescent moon in hair (Chandrasekhar), who has the Ganges in matted locks (Gangadharaya/Jatadharaya), who has the Third Eye which destroyed Kama Deva (Tryambakaya - Trikalagni Rudraaya), who has the serpent Patanjali Vasuki around neck (Bhujanga) who rides a white bull (Nandeshwara), who has skin as white as Camphor or Jasmine (Karpoor Gauram Mallikarjuna)...and you know my dear readers, I could go on all DAY with this... extolling the glories and passtimes of Lord Shiva... INCLUDING the time He appeared as the Jyotir Lingam and tasked Lord Brahma and Lord Vishnu with finding the beginning and the end of it.

So, I KNOW that I am not Shiva!!! Shiva is Brahman and I am also Brahman..I am identical in the spiritual sense WITH Shiva, but I don't have a blue throat or ride a bull the last time I looked...and there will also be those who will say that it is all "symbolic"..Yes, it is symbolic, but I also take all of that symbolism quite literally as well...Quite literally!

However, I am fully aware that Shiva is, in NO way limited to and by this appearance...the way that I learned about Lord Shiva. I mean, becoming Veerbhadra Avatar and decapitating Prajapati Daksh was one of His more endearing moments! It is His "Yaksha Roopam" that totally melts my heart (I guess I am just weird that way).

So, when others say "Shiva is pure, formless Consciousness"..Well, for THEM He is like that, but for me...Nope! BRAHMAN is pure, formless Consciousness, while Shiva is that shining, angelic, holy dude who sits in Samadhi on Mt Kailash with Kali Ma and all their attending ganas.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[handy guy]

That's a great and highly descriptive witness Shivani! Thanks for sharing.

For me I take both formless and form as not being exclusive of either, but as connected... Btw. I really like and appreciate the depiction and teachings of Lord Siva as Lord Nataraja!

Aum Namah Sivaya