Sat TAt Aum

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Thanks for the links. I'm going to listen to them.

That's awesome! I hope you find something that resonates.

With all due respect and humility, I do know a lot about this, but just because I can understand it, doesn't mean that I can present it in such a way that others can 'get it' too...and trying to dumb it down from the way my own intellect processes it (which is VERY rationally abstract) into some form of 'common language' is enough to give me a migraine headache.

So, it is easier to provide the links from whence I learned all of this myself:

Panel Discussion - Igor Kufayev, Sally Kempton, Menas Kafatos - Buddha At The Gas Pump interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBQwuP43xRI

Fractals, DNA and the Golden Ratio - Dan Winter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx35q-zJRk

Interview With Stephen Wolinsky from the SAND Anthology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkIKXgiKvCM

Abhinavagupta's Paramarthasara - Swami Lakshmanjoo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzV-mY47g-8

Shabdabrahman: The Divine Vibration - Shaktipatseer2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0GXQlJMxNA

The Energetic Transformation Of Consciousness - Craig Holliday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8P1d4N408M

That should keep you all going for a while...and my laptop is totally FULL of this stuff...I watch it all very regularly.

Aum Namah Shivaya

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

The symbol for Aum (OM) is symbolically quite illustrative as it quite graphically depicts the process of creation. The bindu (dot) represents, as you put it, the "subtlest point in vibratory creation". The uppermost curve represents the transcendental veil which, once crossed, can easily result in entanglement. The three large curves are often used to depict the various trinities in creation among which are time (present, past, future), the creative process (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva --- the creative, sustaining, and destroying forces), the three states of man (deep sleep, dream formation, the so-called waking state) and its obvious parallels, and so on to include all aspects of the manifestation. The space around OM represents the underlying Reality from which all emerges in a manner consistent with the Big Bang theory and is best exemplified to the masses in dream formations which appear in "Big Bang" fashion.

thanks for the explanation of the symbol, it's a difficult one to nail down as it has multiple meanings and such; I hadn't previously heard that the space surounding the symbol had meaning as well. You said something to the extend of the symbol being representative of the process of the emergence of it all, does the symbol make or interpretations of it make predictions of the process of it all and of how it all eventually goes away?

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Since physics interests you, you might want to read the book "Quantum Questions" edited by Ken Wilbur. It includes the "mystical" writings of Nobel-prize winning quantum physicists such as Schroedinger, Einstein, Eddington, James Jeans, de Broglie, and so on.

Thanks, it sounds interesting though there is so much that one could read and research; perhaps you could summaries what it was that had meaning to you of the book and then maybe later I'll read it as well. I enjoy quantum view points and enjoy physics but there is only so much I know, often I falsely presume things based in the limits of my exposure to the subject; what I'm trying to say is that I don't know a lot about physics but I enjoy it - the way I typically describe my understanding of physics is that I know the vocabulary and the general concepts but not the specifics of why what is what.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

To use your terminology from your original post, Schroedinger explicitly states that scientific instruments will NOT be able to measure "the subtlest point in vibratory creation" because the instruments cannot be sufficiently subtle for such measurements. He adds that the only way to attune to those subtle vibrations is through meditation and refers one to the Upanishads.

I think that Schroedinger was wise to consider the limitation of science as it relates to moments within its continuous development; I've always liked Schroedingers thought that Eastern religious thought such as the Upanishads should be considered; but Schroedinger as a source is of my impression not the best one. I've read about Schroedinger: in an autobiography of Einstein, in Schroedingers Cat and Einsteins Dice, and in another book which cover the history of the development of physics. My impression was that Schroedinger as a Theoretical Physicist was ify, he was like the kid who wasn't quiet good enough but was well enough liked by the most popular kid that he was included. Schroedinger came up with a particular idea, I think it was something like the particle wave duality of a photon but I currently don't remember, he wrote an equation for it that was correct; I think much of the limitations of his ability to develop contributions can be equated towards his admiration of Einstein in apposing what was the newly created field of quantum physics.

Also I read the Upanishads and really liked them; I was only able to understand about sixty percent of the Upanishads that where included in the book of them that I read; the faces of God was one of them that I struggle to correctly imagine as it related to what I know of physics.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

When I was at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar in 1998 with my spiritual mentor, I personally interacted with several extraordinary beings from the Himalayas. I was directed by my mentor to meditate on how such things are possible. As Schoedinger duly noted, quantum physics is good but only up to a certain point after which meditation is absolutely necessary to go deeper where scientific instruments cannot go.

Sounds like a really cool experience, I can't imagine, I've never been in the presents of someone who really knew or even really had an understanding of how to meditate; my understandings have been shaped through personal experience without guidence, books, videos, and this chat room. I agree that meditation is without limit where in scientific instruments do have limits.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You are obviously well-read and my sense is that you practice as well so I look forward to our future discussions. We can discuss direct validating meditative experiences in contrast to speculative theories.

I've read some but mostly I've just thought about alot. I greatly value meditation but I have not learned to be able to do it; I, sense my nirbikalpa samadhi experience of AUM which lasted for six months, have heard the sound of AUM sense, about six years now; occationally I well be lucky enough to have a more traditional meditative experience but such for me in not common.

Something cool I've resently heard was that the pineal grand, the third eye, has been discovered to produce light which then follows a nerve pathway which conects to the same nerve pathway that the light interaction with your eyes follows which both then are at a later point in its route through the brain interpreted; so the third eye does actually see in the exact same way that your eyes do - ("We can discuss direct validating meditative experiences in contrast to speculative theories.")

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I know a bit about Quantum Physics, but not much...although that hasn't stopped me from trying to get into it.

Yes me as well some but not much, it's interesting though; what I've recently figureout is that quantum physics is not comfusing but what is is the fact that physicists wont agree on results so they make up all kinds of crazy ways to rationalize such things. Sometimes the issue is just simply that our initial world view is imcomplete wherein when changed makes such things logical once again.

In relation to everything else that was posted in your long response which include the above quote, thanks for all the sources I well definitely check them out in that Sat Tat Aum is something that I need to fully understand before I publish the book I'm trying to complete.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

but just because I can understand it, doesn't mean that I can present it in such a way that others can 'get it' too...and trying to dumb it down from the way my own intellect processes it (which is VERY rationally abstract) into some form of 'common language' is enough to give me a migraine headache.

You might try, some people may surprise you; I have often found that it isn't concepts which are difficult to grasp, what is is trying to correctly imagine what another person is imagining when they use language; in order to do such questions are required but I suppose I can just repeat the process that you had to indoor

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

So, it is easier to provide the links from whence I learned all of this myself:

thanks again for all the links

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Dustin

thanks for the explanation of the symbol, it's a difficult one to nail down as it has multiple meanings and such; I hadn't previously heard that the space surounding the symbol had meaning as well. You said something to the extend of the symbol being representative of the process of the emergence of it all, does the symbol make or interpretations of it make predictions of the process of it all and of how it all eventually goes away?

My understanding through meditation and also via discussions with others has been that the symbol OM actually serves as a good focal point for understanding the process of creation. If one can practice "conscious sleep", as I have done for years, one realizes that OM also describes the process of dream formation which in many ways is said to parallel the process of creation.

In "conscious sleep", the space is analogous to the deep sleep state of apparent nothingness but full of potential creative energy. The bindu (dot) corresponds to your point about the subtlest vibration which serves as a catalyst for the process of creation. If you've ever meditated on mental associations, the bindu serves as the root of the dream and the mental associations serve as the branches as dream formation takes place. Images start to form. The smaller curve serves as the transcendental veil beyond which the dream world appears real (unless one is a lucid dreamer and can switch from dream-object to dreamer easily) and one becomes entangled in nightmares as well as pleasant or neutral dreams. The three larger curves then represent the trinities involved in creation. For example, in a dream, it's interesting to observe how time (present, past, future) all manifest simultaneously.

The great Tibetan yogi Milarepa similarly studied dreams and realized that whatever was possible in a normal dream suddenly became equally possible in the Cosmic Dream. The Tibetan Book of the Dead also notes the similarities between going to sleep and the transitional bardos of dying. It is well said that, once one can eliminate all the "bindus" that trigger dreams, one becomes master of one's destiny as one is no longer driven by mundane urges and can see the Big Picture before engaging in one's next phase of life after the physical body ("lu" in Tibetan which means "that which is left behind") is dropped.

That should be sufficient for now. My spiritual mentor always gave enough information for one to practice and, if one did not practice, she would adamantly refuse to answer questions. "Practice ... only then can you ask questions" was a familiar statement with her.

The dream analogy is frequently used in the east to depict the process of creation. While not a perfect parallel, it is a very useful metaphorical analogy. That is why OM is so frequently used in Hindu chants, Buddhist chants (Aum Mane Padme Hum), and other eastern practices. Some say that AUM is the basis for the Christian "Amen" though I'm not quite convinced of that.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Thanks, it sounds interesting though there is so much that one could read and research; perhaps you could summaries what it was that had meaning to you of the book and then maybe later I'll read it as well. I enjoy quantum view points and enjoy physics but there is only so much I know, often I falsely presume things based in the limits of my exposure to the subject; what I'm trying to say is that I don't know a lot about physics but I enjoy it - the way I typically describe my understanding of physics is that I know the vocabulary and the general concepts but not the specifics of why what is what.



I think that Schroedinger was wise to consider the limitation of science as it relates to moments within its continuous development; I've always liked Schroedingers thought that Eastern religious thought such as the Upanishads should be considered; but Schroedinger as a source is of my impression not the best one. I've read about Schroedinger: in an autobiography of Einstein, in Schroedingers Cat and Einsteins Dice, and in another book which cover the history of the development of physics. My impression was that Schroedinger as a Theoretical Physicist was ify, he was like the kid who wasn't quiet good enough but was well enough liked by the most popular kid that he was included. Schroedinger came up with a particular idea, I think it was something like the particle wave duality of a photon but I currently don't remember, he wrote an equation for it that was correct; I think much of the limitations of his ability to develop contributions can be equated towards his admiration of Einstein in apposing what was the newly created field of quantum physics.

Also I read the Upanishads and really liked them; I was only able to understand about sixty percent of the Upanishads that where included in the book of them that I read; the faces of God was one of them that I struggle to correctly imagine as it related to what I know of physics.

It's difficult to summarize the "mystical" writings of multiple quantum physicists since they all approach the same truth of an underlying reality from totally different perspectives. That actually makes it all the more interesting since they come to the same conclusions via different routes.

Since you're not enamored with Schroedinger, the Einstein realization may be more to your liking. Einstein reportedly did an experiment with a positronium atom. The unstable atom disintegrates and produces two quanta of light (photons) proceeding in different directions. It was discovered that , when one quanta changed direction, the other quanta would also change direction simultaneously. This initially confused Einstein since his theories indicated that such communication was not possible because nothing travels faster than the speed of light and photons are light particles.

Neils Bohr, however, was not perturbed since he concluded that the apparent paradox stemmed from the fact that Einstein was looking at the two particles as separate whereas Bohr indicated that they were part of an indivisible system and that it was meaningless to think of them otherwise. Hence, the spiritual principle of "unity in diversity" was established with Einstein and then it was just a matter of how to define this underlying reality that could not be measured with scientific instruments. As Schroedinger wisely concluded, it is necessary to meditate in order to go into those depths.

As for the Upanishads, both Shankaracharya and Ram (in the classic Yoga Vashistha) stated that, if one were to read one and only one Upanishad, it should be the shortest of the Upanishads, the Mandukya Upanishad, for therein lies all that is needed for realization. Incidentally, the Mandukya Upanishad was my own personal catalyst for the "conscious sleep" practice whose benefits are innumerable.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Sounds like a really cool experience, I can't imagine, I've never been in the presents of someone who really knew or even really had an understanding of how to meditate; my understandings have been shaped through personal experience without guidence, books, videos, and this chat room. I agree that meditation is without limit where in scientific instruments do have limits.



I've read some but mostly I've just thought about alot. I greatly value meditation but I have not learned to be able to do it; I, sense my nirbikalpa samadhi experience of AUM which lasted for six months, have heard the sound of AUM sense, about six years now; occationally I well be lucky enough to have a more traditional meditative experience but such for me in not common.

Something cool I've resently heard was that the pineal grand, the third eye, has been discovered to produce light which then follows a nerve pathway which conects to the same nerve pathway that the light interaction with your eyes follows which both then are at a later point in its route through the brain interpreted; so the third eye does actually see in the exact same way that your eyes do - ("We can discuss direct validating meditative experiences in contrast to speculative theories.")

Not only have I been in the presence of experienced advanced meditators, but I have also witnessed personally the powers of some of these extraordinary beings. Powers are not displayed casually but, when one frequents really spiritual circles, things happen and one meditates on how such things are possible. Practice is essential and then one attracts the special ones into one's presence.

In meditation, particularly Shabd Yoga, some focus on the lights and sounds that emerge in the depths of meditation. Once again, practice is essential as mere reading does not suffice. One should not, however, become attached to the colors and sounds since the attachment can create problems and disappointments when they do not happen. It should be noted that, when one's mind is still and thought-free, subtler vibrations become apparent and tracing them back to the Source coincides quite well with your initial statement about attuning to the subtlest vibrations. Now, practice is essential or it's all just talk and that won't lead to anything lasting and really worthwhile. Practice and all will ultimately revealed as one becomes a light unto one's self.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Something I once read was that Yogananda asked God why the universe was
created and the answer was so that God would have someone to (something like) share in his
experience of eternal love and bliss with.

That's right! Being the Only One, alone ....forever...not fun!
Been there....there is Nothing else....just One Pure Awareness....One...(yes, there was no 'me'.... 'me'
was that One Awareness...n-o-t-h-i-n-g else...no up, no down...I left that place pretty fast...it's all inside.)

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Einstein reportedly did an experiment with a positronium atom. The unstable atom disintegrates and produces two quanta of light (photons) proceeding in different directions. It was discovered that , when one quanta changed direction, the other quanta would also change direction simultaneously.

Neils Bohr, however, was not perturbed since he concluded that the apparent paradox stemmed from the fact that Einstein was looking at the two particles as separate whereas Bohr indicated that they were part of an indivisible system and that it was meaningless to think of them otherwise. Hence, the spiritual principle of "unity in diversity" was established with Einstein...

Oh my and how about
it has been shown only our belief can change atoms!
Quantum physics is my thang.


Anyone not familiar with this stuff....listen or read Gregg Braden...he uncomplicates things very well.