Chasing spiritual highs

[Shivani Devi]

People must be blessed, really and truly blessed to be in samadhi 24/7 without a break.

For people like the OP and myself, that isn't the case.

It is there when I quieten my mind, when I go within and let it happen...allow myself to feel it and experience it, but I have yet to bring the full awareness of it into everyday, conscious existence.

I know it is always there, behind everything...but actually living it IN full awareness is difficult for me.

There was once a time that I could, but I have to work towards that now...it doesn't come as easy and as naturally as it once did.

It's like my awareness has been split in two...there is my 'Self Awareness' and then there is the 'World Awareness' and I don't know how to reconcile them in such a way to give me a lasting experience of bliss.

So, maybe you could assist me there.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

People must be blessed, really and truly blessed to be in samadhi 24/7 without a break.

For people like the OP and myself, that isn't the case.

Oh I see... for you it's an elevated spiritual state with the name "samadhi." No, for me it's simply relating to life in a joyful, loving way, 24/7. People who seek spiritual highs and metaphysical experiences that transcend the experiences of every-day life, is something completely different than what I'm describing.

I've had those experiences from time to time, so I know what you're describing (I think). But I don't seek them.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

Oh I see... for you it's some elevated spiritual state with the name "samadhi," No, for me it's simply relating to life in a joyful, loving way, 24/7. People who seek "spiritual highs" and metaphysical experiences that transcend the experiences of every-day life, is something completely different than what I'm describing.

I've had those experiences from time to time, so I know what you're describing (I think). But I don't seek them.

Yes. This is what I'm talking about.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Yes. This is what I'm talking about.

Okay, good. This is a somewhat confusing thread to me. shivatar doesn't appear to be happy ("I just feel miserable") as a result of no longer having these "samadhi" experiences. And yet he seems to be longing and pining for these experiences ("I'm doing everything possible to reach that supreme high again").

My spiritual development understanding is to always accept what is. Come to a place of equanimity regarding the current reality. That's the first step. Then, if it isn't what one wants, one begins the transformation process by always examining the inner motive, rather than projecting external reasons and solutions ("apparently God loves irony" and "I'm trying to solve the most difficult puzzle in the universe"). So what exactly is the motive here? Just to feel high? Is this about having spiritual-ecstasy experiences in the same way one takes drugs to get high? Is it to escape real life via these "samadhi" experiences? I don't know of course. I'm just asking the question.

Years ago I took another tack. I stopped doing drugs and alcohol in 1983. Likewise I stopped chasing after spiritual ecstasy back in the late 80s. You know what happens to an addict when they don't get what they need? They crash. They just feel miserable.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

You know what happens to an addict when they don't get what they need? They crash. They just feel miserable.

Exactly! and that's what I was getting at before with the whole comparison to drugs.

I'm not really chasing spiritual highs, because I know it's available to me if I actually avail myself of it, but often I become so enmeshed in the mundane that I just don't take the time to step back from it all. Often, it requires effort, practice and patience. We call this 'sadhana'.

Sometimes, we do a lot of sadhana and experience these spiritual highs, but once the sadhana stops, so do the experiences...until we resume the sadhana once more.

I guess this relates to a few other posts I have made recently in other forums.

Sometimes, kundalini rises, but she doesn't quite reach the crown chakra where we can experience full-on bliss and have it become permanent.

When kundalini rises into the crown and beyond, it's like a one-way ticket to 'Blissville' but if she rises to the third-eye or lower, she won't stay there for very long and begins the descent back down the chakras, like the mercury in a thermometer does when it gets cold...she goes back to rest in the base chakra again...and goes back to sleep again...until the next round.

This is called 'being in kunda' and one can go from the very high of highs to the very low of lows...like a spiritual form of manic depression and it takes its toll on the body with it...until kundalini makes it all the way and past the point of no return.

Both the OP and myself have an association with Shiva.

[Shivani Devi]

Is this about having spiritual-ecstasy experiences in the same way one takes drugs to get high? Is it to escape real life via these "samadhi" experiences?

Not at all. It isn't an escape and it's not something we actually do to experience it...it just happens and it's wonderful when it does, but lacking when it does not.

[running]

Originally Posted by shivatar

The spiritual high is the best high. Better than drugs, better than love, better than death. Of all the things I've experienced nothing comes close to the spiritual high.

I experienced the peak of it once. It was in this life too, I'm not talking about some vision of a past life or theory of what is possible.

It has recently occured to me that I'm not very interested in helping others, or even being a part of their journey really. All I want is my own spiritual high.

Ironically, and apparently God loves irony, the only time I experienced the supreme height was when I didn't want to. When I had no desire at all, only surrender, pure and true surrender, was the only time.

Now that state seems impossible to reach, having tasted the peak how could I ever want to let go again...

eugh, I just feel miserable. Chasing these ghosts and trying to find that high again. I'm haunted by the knowledge of how good things can be, and haunted by the reality I wake up to everyday being different from what I know is possible. The only answer is I'm not who I was then, what I experienced then is not available to me now because I've changed. I can't help but think I've become less, that somehow I've mis-used my gift and been cursed to my current existence until I can somehow move past it.

My life is better in almost every way since then too. I'm successful at work, I'm meditating and practicing good health habits, I'm becoming wiser and more knowledgable about myself. It seems like I'm doing everything possible to reach that supreme high again but it just won't give in. I feel like I'm trying to solve the most difficult puzzle in the universe and if I could just find the solution like I once did I'll be ok.

What I want is the feeling of the supreme height. Not just the knowledge. The knowledge has become stale to me, without the experience there is no point in having the knowledge. And for some reason my body isn't giving me the experience, no matter how hard I try. Perhaps it's time to look for a teacher, or many teachers.

its non dual. meaning your always enough for it. its the idea that your not that is the problem. if that idea exists.

the irony also is in that high is the way of helping others. cause it is in spirit that the real help comes. not through effort but by energrtic expansion. ecstatic current.

there are pranayama exercises and teachers whom give transmissions that help reach that goal.

at some point the chase ends. because you become it. you cant not be in it. you cant stop the ecstatic current with all the will you have.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

it just happens and it's wonderful when it does, but lacking when it does not.

Okay, and this again is why I'm confused as to both the topic-question and answer. Both the wonderful experience you describe, as well as misery and the feeling of lacking something, are caused by chasing after spiritual ecstasy. If that's the path one chooses, then of course that's what will happen.

There is also the middle path, the path of equanimity. Neither ecstasy nor misery. Again, this is a path-choice one makes.

This thread to me is rather like wanting candy and desiring candy and eating candy because it's so delicious. And then lamenting that one is now experiencing sugar-crashes. But instead of talking about changing the diet, the discussion seems to be about finding ways to get back to that yummy feeling that comes from eating sugar treats.

If you want to keep eating candy, highs and lows will be the result. That's the deal.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

Okay, and this again is why I'm confused as to the both topic-question and answer. Both the wonderful experience you describe, as well as misery, are caused by chasing after spiritual ecstasy. If that's the path one chooses, then of course that's what will happen.

There is also the middle path, the path of equanimity. Neither ecstasy nor misery. Again, this is a path-choice one makes.

This thread to me is rather like wanting candy and desiring candy and eating candy because it's so delicious. And then lamenting that one is now experiencing sugar-crashes. But instead of looking to change the diet, looking for ways to get back to that yummy feeling that comes with eating sugar treats.

If you want to keep eating candy, highs and lows will be the result. That's the deal.

Pretty much.

In reference to my previous post (two posts ago), this 'Middle Way' in Tantra is called Shushumna. Shushumna is the central nerve that links the base chakra (Muladhara) to the crown chakra (Sahasrara).

There are two nerves that intertwine around it like a helical DNA structure. They are called Ida and Pingala.

Ida is left (Yin) and Pingala is right (Yang).

Ideally, when kundalini rises, she travels the path of the 'Middle Way' she shoots straight up shushumna nerve...however, if any of the chakras are blocked, or if there is some obstruction within shushumna, she'll go up the 'path of least resistance' which in my case was the Ida nerve.

When that happens, pain and torment is experienced along with the bliss.

If she isn't raised correctly, she'll just go back down, leave one feeling pretty drained out and miserable.

[In Flux]

In Buddhist meditation there is the state of dhyana, which is both very pleasant (*), but also very suitable for gaining insight. So I don't think that desiring a spiritual high is necessarily setting yourself up for failure. But chasing a high without paying attention to how you live (mind you, I'm not accusing the OP of doing that, I'm just saying it in general :-) would seem like setting yourself up for failure.

(*) I think I've only had a small glimpse, but the pleasure soon became overwhelming and I got scared because it was so intense, so I shut down the process, with some difficulty :-).