The Mystery Of Godliness is Great

Originally Posted by Morpheus

What is evident with study is numerological synchronicity throughout the collected books of the Bible.
Revelation 1:8, and 1:18 is another example of scriptures in the New Testament supporting the deity of the Messiah, Yeshua, and His unique unity with the Father.
Who is also referred to by the apostle John as "The Word of God made flesh.", in his Gospel.

Who also, according to him, had always existed with the Father in Co Union and Unity.

100% fact---Collosians 1:15--Jesus is Gods--IMAGE) an image is Never the real thing. The FIRSTBORN of all creation--- there is 0 doubt verse 15 and 16 are speaking of the creation that occurred before the earth was formed--Jesus was the first creation--created direct-first and last--all other things created through him. Gods masterworker of Proverbs 8= 0 doubt.

[Morpheus]

"God is Spirit. And those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and truth."
John 4:24

Point of fact, KJ... EVERYTHING, we understand today, is origined and founded in Spirit!
The underpinning and foundation of, "the material world".
(See Einstein's statement below.)

Because of His birth into humanity, (the image of God, Genesis 1:26), He is referred to as, "the image of God", KJ.
Doesn't support Russell's, nor the Watchtower's, wayward perspective.
Otherwise, KJ, He is one with the Father as, "the Word (of God), made flesh".
John 1

KJ, again, Thomas declared, "My Lord and my God", whom Jesus did NOT correct, or rebuke.
Also, clearly in scripture, Jesus accepted worship from others, such as they whom He healed.
IF He were not Almighty God incarnated into this sphere of humanity, these accepted incidents of worship would be blasphemy.


Also, didn't cite Colossians.
Cited Revelation 1:8, and 1:18.
"The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the ending".
First stated from the Father, the Almighty. Next stated from Jesus.

You can advocate something as "FACT", all you want.
Doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by Morpheus

"God is Spirit. And those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and truth."
John 4:24

Point of fact, KJ... EVERYTHING, we understand today, is origined and founded in Spirit!
The underpinning and foundation of, "the material world".
(See Einstein's statement below.)

Because of His birth into humanity, (the image of God, Genesis 1:26), He is referred to as, "the image of God", KJ.
Doesn't support Russell's, nor the Watchtower's, wayward perspective.
Otherwise, KJ, He is one with the Father as, "the Word (of God), made flesh".
John 1

KJ, again, Thomas declared, "My Lord and my God", whom Jesus did NOT correct, or rebuke.
Also, clearly in scripture, Jesus accepted worship from others, such as they whom He healed.
IF He were not Almighty God incarnated into this sphere of humanity, these accepted incidents of worship would be blasphemy.


Also, didn't cite Colossians.
Cited Revelation 1:8, and 1:18.
"The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the ending".
First stated from the Father, the Almighty. Next stated from Jesus.

You can advocate something as "FACT", all you want.
Doesn't make it so.

Here is Fact--Jesus has a God--John 20:17, Rev 3:12= bible FACT.
Jesus did not receive worship--Catholicism mistranslated the greek word-Proskenaue( misspelled)--it has 5 different meanings from Greek to English-- 1) worship to God-- 2) obeisance to a king--plus 3 others-- every trinity translation gives worship to a mortal( Heb 2:7-9) Jesus--it never occurred--They bowed in obeisance to their king. Revelation teaches what God shares with Jesus--worship is not one of them. No mortal EVER gets worship. Obesiance to Jesus at every point in time from the first one is correct. Jesus is not God--he has a mortal mother.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by kjw47

Here is Fact--Jesus has a God--John 20:17, Rev 3:12= bible FACT.
Jesus did not receive worship--Catholicism mistranslated the greek word-Proskenaue( misspelled)--it has 5 different meanings from Greek to English-- 1) worship to God-- 2) obeisance to a king--plus 3 others-- every trinity translation gives worship to a mortal( Heb 2:7-9) Jesus--it never occurred--They bowed in obeisance to their king. Revelation teaches what God shares with Jesus--worship is not one of them. No mortal EVER gets worship. Obesiance to Jesus at every point in time from the first one is correct. Jesus is not God--he has a mortal mother.

Just re stating again, your beliefs

You ignored Thomas' declaration, I cited, which Jesus did not correct or rebuke.

Perhaps here is a good point to look at O/T support for the Trinity.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Without controversy, the mystery of Godliness is great...
St. Paul
1 Timothy 3:16

"God was manifested in the flesh..."
Justified in the Spirit...
SEEN OF ANGELS...
Preached unto the gentiles...
BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD,

Recieved up into glory...( Acts 1:11 )

I am not arguing any of your points about the Son of God, but I would point out that this was known for every person well before Christ. In Luxor, the aphorism from 1400 BC would have been known by Moses and Joseph. To be in the court of the pharaoh, they would have been required to be trained by priests. They would have had knowledge of the aphorisms for sure, if not the inspiration for them.

LUXOR: The body is the house of god. That is why it is said, "Man know yourself."

This was echoed on every temple in the area, including Greece.

LUXOR: Your body is the temple of knowledge.

"God was manifested in the flesh..."

---Established from area temples and known from Sanskrit for 6000 years. We are all the House of God's Spirit.

Justified in the Spirit...

---Compare to the body being the house of the Spirit, which has never been untrue. Compare the next aphorism to Ephesians.

---LUXOR: As to deserving, know that the gift of heaven is free; this gift of Knowledge is so great that no effort whatever could hope to 'deserve' it.

SEEN OF ANGELS...

---Many angels are reported by Yahweh to be untrustworthy. Many of his prophets lied. It is obvious there was no control over the messengers. From Genesis 6 to the casting of Angels into hell, we can't have faith in messengers who have the potential to be fallen.

Preached unto the gentiles...

---Of course. This is the way of the forum. Predicatory speech was the most common discourse among people of the day.

BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD,

---As all of this is past tense to the writer, only a fraction of the world knew him. Still to this day, he is obscure to a vast majority of world residents.

I am not disproving the story, but only showing that the elements of this were said of our own being from within nearly every temple complex known to the ancients and even the locals of this area. He was revealing what we all are eternally as images of Adam, not something new for the times. His contention was that he spoke the words of his Father, not his own. His Father was not Yahweh, as revealed in John 8. Yahweh is the Lord, which is the same character we see in the NT.

Why is all of this important? The Lord claimed to be God with none beside in the OT, but violated Genesis 9:6, which we have discussed in another thread. It's important to know that shedding human blood is forbidden, yet the Lord hung on the cross to pay this very thing, directly in fulfillment of Genesis 9:6.

The Father's religion of the heart was already in every corner of their world. The ones Jesus accused were not the surrounding temples, but the Jewish leaders themselves. I believe they had hijacked the religion of the East for their own purposes, thereby pouting the truth of the Spirit, which most of the temple traditions already knew. Far from propping up the Hebrews, he condemned them as worshiping their Father, the Devil. His identity is clear. Yahweh, the accuser and adversary of man.

We have further evidence of this with Noah being drunk on the wine. Symbolically, this is the Yahweh drunk on the wine of his wrath. For the sons, one uncovered the nakedness and the other two tried to hide it. In Jesus day, he tore the veil over this story, revealing himself to be the Lord, which Angels recognized. His payment was for Genesis 9:6. It could not be more clear. Wrestling with the Lord is the key to knowing mankind is him. It's not some other entity. It's us. Of course, the source for this is the Angel of Yahweh, who made Satan cunning. That's the only evidence we need. Jesus stood against the Father of Israel. There is no other Father than Yahweh, as evidenced from Exodus 4:22. Firstborn is the first child you have had. Yahweh's first is Israel. Elohim's Son is Adam. There are other Sons of God, with Yahweh likely being one of the, as evidenced in Job. We can negate multiple aspects, so we must not trust the source. We are deceived, which is a confirmation we find in the book of Revelation. No need to depend on it, but negate what you can. Negate the untrue to find the true. Truth is everywhere. Truth is not complex. Jesus preached against the false we can negate.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by AlwaysDayAfterYesterday

I am not arguing any of your points about the Son of God, but I would point out that this was known for every person well before Christ. In Luxor, the aphorism from 1400 BC would have been known by Moses and Joseph. To be in the court of the pharaoh, they would have been required to be trained by priests. They would have had knowledge of the aphorisms for sure, if not the inspiration for them.

LUXOR: The body is the house of god. That is why it is said, "Man know yourself."

This was echoed on every temple in the area, including Greece.

LUXOR: Your body is the temple of knowledge.

"God was manifested in the flesh..."

---Established from area temples and known from Sanskrit for 6000 years. We are all the House of God's Spirit.

Justified in the Spirit...

---Compare to the body being the house of the Spirit, which has never been untrue. Compare the next aphorism to Ephesians.

---LUXOR: As to deserving, know that the gift of heaven is free; this gift of Knowledge is so great that no effort whatever could hope to 'deserve' it.

SEEN OF ANGELS...

---Many angels are reported by Yahweh to be untrustworthy. Many of his prophets lied. It is obvious there was no control over the messengers. From Genesis 6 to the casting of Angels into hell, we can't have faith in messengers who have the potential to be fallen.

Preached unto the gentiles...

---Of course. This is the way of the forum. Predicatory speech was the most common discourse among people of the day.

BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD,

---As all of this is past tense to the writer, only a fraction of the world knew him. Still to this day, he is obscure to a vast majority of world residents.

I am not disproving the story, but only showing that the elements of this were said of our own being from within nearly every temple complex known to the ancients and even the locals of this area. He was revealing what we all are eternally as images of Adam, not something new for the times. His contention was that he spoke the words of his Father, not his own. His Father was not Yahweh, as revealed in John 8. Yahweh is the Lord, which is the same character we see in the NT.

Why is all of this important? The Lord claimed to be God with none beside in the OT, but violated Genesis 9:6, which we have discussed in another thread. It's important to know that shedding human blood is forbidden, yet the Lord hung on the cross to pay this very thing, directly in fulfillment of Genesis 9:6.

The Father's religion of the heart was already in every corner of their world. The ones Jesus accused were not the surrounding temples, but the Jewish leaders themselves. I believe they had hijacked the religion of the East for their own purposes, thereby pouting the truth of the Spirit, which most of the temple traditions already knew. Far from propping up the Hebrews, he condemned them as worshiping their Father, the Devil. His identity is clear. Yahweh, the accuser and adversary of man.

We have further evidence of this with Noah being drunk on the wine. Symbolically, this is the Yahweh drunk on the wine of his wrath. For the sons, one uncovered the nakedness and the other two tried to hide it. In Jesus day, he tore the veil over this story, revealing himself to be the Lord, which Angels recognized. His payment was for Genesis 9:6. It could not be more clear. Wrestling with the Lord is the key to knowing mankind is him. It's not some other entity. It's us. Of course, the source for this is the Angel of Yahweh, who made Satan cunning. That's the only evidence we need. Jesus stood against the Father of Israel. There is no other Father than Yahweh, as evidenced from Exodus 4:22. Firstborn is the first child you have had. Yahweh's first is Israel. Elohim's Son is Adam. There are other Sons of God, with Yahweh likely being one of the, as evidenced in Job. We can negate multiple aspects, so we must not trust the source. We are deceived, which is a confirmation we find in the book of Revelation. No need to depend on it, but negate what you can. Negate the untrue to find the true. Truth is everywhere. Truth is not complex. Jesus preached against the false we can negate.

Your leaps of reason and conjectures are interesting, but ridiculous. Based on the street view perceptions of this illusory organic situation, and the world of time and space. The same problem which most of Christianity has involving interpretation.

God wrought many miracles to free His chosen people from slavery, through the human archetype of the Savior, Moses. Which. Were enslaved by the Pharoah.

Much later, the "slave of Christ", Paul wrote,
"There is one God, and one mediator between God and man. The man Jesus Christ."
Who also wrote of Him, "In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

You inference of there being any other equal to God is errant, wayward, and ridiculous. Because the Almighty refers to Himself in scripture by different description, doesn't mean at all there are any other who are equal to Him.

Again, these are the Christian forums, and anyone who infers that the Holy Scriptures are not true and accurate regarding these things cannot be considered a Christian, or, "Of the truth".
Neither is there any ground for actual debate or real discussion.

So once again, Jesus had stated during His ministry, which made no sense to his followers at the time,
"The son of man came not to be served, BUT TO SERVE, AND TO GIVE HIS LIFE AS A RANSOM FOR THE MANY."
The atoning Lamb of God for sins. Not for His, nor the Father's, which is impossible as He is perfect. But, for the sins of the fallen, and in a sinful world.
As ought to be evident to anyone.

As well? What did John state? "Behold, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world."

Here is the good news of salvation wrought by the One Who is perfect, borne of His Love.
"God is Love".

Now, you state that "His prophets lied". You expect believers to just accept this statement without citing reference?
Really.
Either way, certainly don't make pretence at being Christian, in the Christian forums and expect your inference thereto to be accepted, and believed.

Romans 8:9 -
"... and if anyone have not the Spirit of Christ, they are none of His."

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Just re stating again, your beliefs

You ignored Thomas' declaration, I cited, which Jesus did not correct or rebuke.

Perhaps here is a good point to look at O/T support for the Trinity.

Thomas was confused.
There is no ot support for a trinity--It clearly teaches--I AM YHVH( Jehovah) besides me( singular) there is no other God.
Elohim= never plural when used for the true living God--Hebrew fact.
I am that I am = error in translating--The real Hebrew = I will be what I will be= Hebrew fact.

This is reality

Let us( YHVH(Jehovah, and his master worker( Jesus) make man in our image.
Your translations are erred.

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

[quote]Who also wrote of Him, "In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

You inference of there being any other equal to God is errant, wayward, and ridiculous. Because the Almighty refers to Himself in scripture by different description, doesn't mean at all there are any other who are equal to Him.

Again, these are the Christian forums, and anyone who infers that the Holy Scriptures are not true and accurate regarding these things cannot be considered a Christian, or, "Of the truth".
Neither is there any ground for actual debate or real discussion.[/QUOTE

As I noted in each post, we are all the Son of God based on the one presupposition you must take from Colossians 1:15-17, "In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

It's that last little bit you won't acknowledge. As for Yahweh, this is the same Lord we knew from the Old Testament, given over to baptism to be made new again in regeneration. Baptism is birth into the lower waters of life, where Jesus (LORD) emerges as a child, made new.

I've now reinforced three points you must deal with.

1) Yahweh is the Son of God
2) Based on Zechariah 3, you can see him silencing the Satan he made, then preparing a HOST for his own Spirit, or that of Joshua / Yeshua, the High Priest.
3) Baptism is rebirth in to the waters of life. It's symbolism for the flood of Noah, or the process to regenerate those lost souls in the pit.

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

In John 2, people were coming to Jesus to be saved. He would NOT entrust himself to them. Why? John 3. They had to be born again.

Revelation 1:7 - Even those who pierced him. Born again into the lower waters. Baptism. Just as the Hindus have always said. Born again. Karma. Today, you and I are one of those born again. Resurrection happens once at the end for all.

[Morpheus]

[quote=AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

Who also wrote of Him, "In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

You inference of there being any other equal to God is errant, wayward, and ridiculous. Because the Almighty refers to Himself in scripture by different description, doesn't mean at all there are any other who are equal to Him.

Again, these are the Christian forums, and anyone who infers that the Holy Scriptures are not true and accurate regarding these things cannot be considered a Christian, or, "Of the truth".
Neither is there any ground for actual debate or real discussion.[/QUOTE

As I noted in each post, we are all the Son of God based on the one presupposition you must take from Colossians 1:15-17, "In Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

It's that last little bit you won't acknowledge. As for Yahweh, this is the same Lord we knew from the Old Testament, given over to baptism to be made new again in regeneration. Baptism is birth into the lower waters of life, where Jesus (LORD) emerges as a child, made new.

I've now reinforced three points you must deal with.

1) Yahweh is the Son of God
2) Based on Zechariah 3, you can see him silencing the Satan he made, then preparing a HOST for his own Spirit, or that of Joshua / Yeshua, the High Priest.
3) Baptism is rebirth in to the waters of life. It's symbolism for the flood of Noah, or the process to regenerate those lost souls in the pit.

1 Peter 3

19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

In John 2, people were coming to Jesus to be saved. He would NOT entrust himself to them. Why? John 3. They had to be born again.

Revelation 1:7 - Even those who pierced him. Born again into the lower waters. Baptism. Just as the Hindus have always said. Born again. Karma. Today, you and I are one of those born again. Resurrection happens once at the end for all.

WELL FOR ONE... here in "the world", there is gender and male and female. So, "Son"?
You mean "child".
And it is a, "yes and no".

Humanity may be created in the image of God, but many are NOT children by RELATIONSHIP!
That isn't apparent and obvious to you, in the world?
Really?
Are you cloistered in your own little world?
Are you aware of what goes on around you?
Read the daily News?
No..?

Paul's statement about the Almighty, which was quoted from a Greek poet, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELATIONSHIP!

This is another example of your leaps of reasoning, and conjecture.

JESUS IS NOT "JOSHUA". Yeshua is NOT, "JOSHUA".

Zechariah 3 is prophecy of the coming Messiah, Jesus.
Joshua was a priest of that period. It is a picture though of how Jesus will justify every believer by their faith.
Sinners saved.

Everyone is Born Again?
Is everyone baptised into Christ, because of their faith?
Again, faulty and wayward reasoning.
Apart from "the world" of spacetime, in the greater reality of Eternity... we will all see Him.
As it says elsewhere... all who have lived, "great and small"... How does this translate to you that all are recipients of Salvation?

Hindu teachings about reincarnation are not applicable.
Besides, the linear perception of successive lives through illusory time is just that.
An "illusion".

[AlwaysDayAfterYesterday]

In relation to Baptism, please explain each of these.

1 Corinthians 15:12
[ We Will Come Back to Life ] If we have told you that Christ has been brought back to life, how can some of you say that coming back from the dead is impossible?

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
John 3

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

In Hebrew, AMN is Amen. It is Aleph (Strong) Mem (Water) Nun (Seed). Amen in Hebrew is the word TRUE.

In Greek and Latin, AMN is Lamb. What two languages comprise our sacred texts?

In Greek / Latin:

AMN - Lamb
Amni - River of Life
Amnio - Bowl catching the blood of a sacrificed Lamb
Amnion - Sac in the mother's womb holding a baby
Amniotic - Fluid of the Womb
Amnesia - Condition of the baby and you. You have forgotten
Amnesty - When God forgets your sin
dAMNation - When God remembers your sin.

Hosea 13:13
They have the opportunity to live again, but they are not smart enough to take it. They are like a baby who is about to be born but won’t come out of its mother’s womb.

Hosea 14:7
They will live again in God’s shadow. They will grow like grain. They will blossom like grapevines. They will be as famous as the wines from Lebanon.

Psalm 85:6
Won’t you restore our lives again so that your people may find joy in you?
Hebrews 11 (BY FAITH)

Hebrews 12:35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection.

Job 2

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied.

---What was Satan saying? Snakes shed skin, but are the same snake. Did Job receive his sons and daughter's again in the end of the book? Yes.

Isaiah 26

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

Job 33

23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
a messenger, one out of a thousand,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—
26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.
27 And they will go to others and say,
‘I have sinned, I have perverted what is right,
but I did not get what I deserved.
28 God has delivered me from going down to the pit,
and I shall live to enjoy the light of life.’

29 “God does all these things to a person—
twice, even three times—

Deuteronomy 6

10 When the Lord your God brings you into the land he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you—a land with large, flourishing cities you did not build, 11 houses filled with all kinds of good things you did not provide, wells you did not dig, and vineyards and olive groves you did not plant—then when you eat and are satisfied, 12 be careful that you do not forget the Lord, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

20 In the future, when your son asks you, “What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the Lord our God has commanded you?” 21 tell him: “We were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand.

Psalm 71:20

Though you have made me see troubles, many and bitter, you will restore my life again; from the depths of the earth you will again bring me up.

Ezekiel 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 37:13
Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.

The entire Bible is a future promise for his people of rebirth on Earth, not somewhere else. Dry bones would live here on Earth. Read the Deuteronomy quote. These are not new souls, with the other people somewhere in heaven. Reason this out correctly.

Earth rebirth. This is the place we live. Heaven comes after the final resurrection, not before.