There exists nothing but faith

[deztini3]

Theres one thing i´m afraid of in this life, and thats material existence without anything spiritual.

There exists no certainty about if there is a spirit world, only hope.

How do i not know if everything related to this subject isnt a conjuration of the mind?

How do you know if your faith hasnt simply clouded your reason?

How do you know if all the things that you think you have seen through meditation or other things is real? How do you know if it isnt just something that your mind has created from imagination gathered from things you have read about the subject? If it isnt just something that your mind created because of your faith that it exists?

Is there any reason for a spiritual world to exist?

Is it just something that people create to ignore the sad reality that there is no purpose.

Is it simply the nature of being conscious, to believe in a higher purpose?

I have thought about purpose many times

And i have reached the final conclusion that, if our purpose is to grow spiritually, then that purpose was given to us by a higher being(god)

That god created values of what matters to us and what doesnt matter to us.

What matters to a person that has realized the true meaning of life(growing spiritually), is a value created, and that value cannot be changed, thus it is nothing special, only a value, a value that was created to matter to us.

When you think things throughout, they simply end with pure reason, and that reason tells me that there is no place for a higher purpose, its simply something that we created, it is simply what is the nature of being conscious.

And even if there was a true purpose(spiritual purpose) then that purpose was based on logic, a system, values..

Something decided what we should value as high and what we should value as low, and the highest value the human mind could comprehend, is to be a true loving being, a spiritual person of love and wisdom. There is no free will, everything is determined no matter what.

We created the spiritual world with our mind to tell ourselves that there was a purpose in life, that we lived with a purpose greater than simply procreating.

But we ignored why we wanted to create the spiritual world. We created the world because we were afraid that everything would end after death, which it unfortunately will, and even if it wont, even if we will become spirits, then we will already know that the purpose that was created for us was determined, we never had any grip over our own destiny, so it is even pointless to look forward to anything.

Thanks for reading, i´m trying to express my view on this as best as i can, i may have done it better, but i hope you got the point.

Your mind is trying to understand that which cannot be described. Only experience. As soon as you stop thinking about this, and accept that you don't know, is when the freedom of thought begins. There is nothing to understand. The mind cannot understand it. It's all about staying present in the moment. You can do this by focusing attention inside body, or in the very beginning start to observe your thoughts. Just be the silent observer. Don't judge what you see. Just observe. Be aware.

[Silver]

But we ignored why we wanted to create the spiritual world. We created the world because we were afraid that everything would end after death, which it unfortunately will, and even if it wont, even if we will become spirits, then we will already know that the purpose that was created for us was determined, we never had any grip over our own destiny, so it is even pointless to look forward to anything.

...but in the process of living our earthly lives out (and even in our afterspiritlife), it appears that we are perpetual tourists, exploring, questioning, seeking, all the myriad things we do in our lives enrich it past the scaffolding of what you are saying was (pre-determined), so the adventure during our journey is what fleshes us out and makes each of us unique and I think that's the point, it's what we have to look forward to. My two cents~*

[deztini3]

Thanks for the replies, but my main point is that, there is no reason to so strongly believe that there exists anything beyond material existence.

If someone can give me strong reasons to believe that there exists a spiritual purpose, then you have my attention.

I admit that i have experienced things that seemed unnatural, but at the same time i witness 10 times more things that indicate that there exists no justice in this world.

Youre a good person? Here, have cancer. Its caused by genetics, no matter what you were in your former life.

Originally Posted by deztini3

Thanks for the replies, but my main point is that, there is no reason to so strongly believe that there exists anything beyond material existence.

If someone can give me strong reasons to believe that there exists a spiritual purpose, then you have my attention.

I admit that i have experienced things that seemed unnatural, but at the same time i witness 10 times more things that indicate that there exists no justice in this world.

Youre a good person? Here, have cancer. Its caused by genetics, no matter what you were in your former life.

No exterior source will ever convince you of what you ask......only you will find that or not ....for yourself....happy hunting

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by not human

No exterior source will ever convince you of what you ask......only you will find that or not ....for yourself....happy hunting

Or you could answer with your reasons to believe in spiritual existence.

Originally Posted by deztini3

Or you could answer with your reasons to believe in spiritual existence.

Trust me...its a cognitive experience ..making it a mental construct will never do it for you...my experience is my experience and means nothing to you.....good luck

[deztini3]

Originally Posted by not human

Trust me...its a cognitive experience ..making it a mental construct will never do it for you...my experience is my experience and means nothing to you.....good luck

at least try to create a mental model of what happened to you. You can write what you think cant you?

Two words...look within...when you do that then your inquiry has substance...all we will do on a level of 'mind' is toss concepts about that for the most part, as Moke said are unable to be put into words therefore flawed. This is the best way I can show you is to direct you inward...if you still insist on looking exterior ...then maybe someone else more articulate than me can help. Good luck.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by deztini3

Thanks for the replies, but my main point is that, there is no reason to so strongly believe that there exists anything beyond material existence.

If someone can give me strong reasons to believe that there exists a spiritual purpose, then you have my attention.

I admit that i have experienced things that seemed unnatural, but at the same time i witness 10 times more things that indicate that there exists no justice in this world.

Youre a good person? Here, have cancer. Its caused by genetics, no matter what you were in your former life.

Believers can only give you anecdotal stories of our experiences that are subjective.

It's true that each individual has to come upon SOMEthing that turns their head and it's totally unique in both timing and why, how, etc. it happens that way for you. Sometimes it's just cumulative and we make the all-uncertain judgment call ~ it's not something you can measure in a beaker, that sort of thing, y'know. You're a skeptic and we'd waste our breath telling 'our story'.

If you can 'live' with the 'knowledge' that there's nothing in the great beyond, then why sweat it? The way I see it is, there's either spiritual existence forever or there's sweet oblivion after our bodies die. I don't see anything wrong with either.