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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #11  
Old 11-05-2016, 05:10 AM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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What really happened before the time of the Greeks? ~ querent
Doesn't make a lick of difference. ~ respondent

history provides a context for understanding events. [in my estimation]
context provides an opportunity for meaning; there is absolutely
no meaning to anything without a context for it. [i believe]

i have no desire to experience meaninglessness.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2016, 11:02 AM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organic born
Intellectual observations are a far cry different from having lived a life of application and results. People may use the same words from time to time but the core knowings behind those words may vary wildly. :)
I see some of that in the form of rejection born of personal antipathy. Different than rejection born of detached understanding. But we all have to do first, in order to learn what not to do. Plus I'm still working on transforming my personal antipathy, it's a lifelong occupation.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2016, 11:35 AM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
What really happened before the time of the Greeks? ~ querent
Doesn't make a lick of difference. ~ respondent

history provides a context for understanding events. [in my estimation]
context provides an opportunity for meaning; there is absolutely
no meaning to anything without a context for it. [i believe]

i have no desire to experience meaninglessness.
I would suggest you are taking organic born's comment to one particular extreme, and ignoring the obvious counterpoint here. Our past defines us in many ways, yes. But it does not and cannot bind us. I can study humanity's history to get a sense of what has come before; what has transpired to create the material present.

But none of that matters one bit with regards to my own personal self-development path. All that matters is what is now, in this moment, as it relates to my conscious awareness and evolution.

This is the same point I make regarding all the "What is God?" discussions that take place on this forum. People argue back and forth (as if they actually know heh). But the fact is, none of it matters. Believe in God or don't believe in God. Again, it makes no difference one way or the other. One's self-development is not dependent on belief in God, or which version of God one happens to believe in.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2016, 04:11 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baile
But none of that matters one bit with regards to my own personal self-development path. All that matters is what is now, in this moment, as it relates to my conscious awareness and evolution.
Exactly. And this is the case at all levels! I eat healthy food because in doing so I feel good all the time. If I start eating poorly (foods that were cooked for me by corporations and then reheated) I observe that good feeling slipping away (and I start gaining weight) until I return to the patterns of eating that compliments ongoing good health in a matter-of-fact way.

Similar is applied to our interaction with others. Over the years we can fine-tune our responses to the world we inhabit. And in time revolutionize our perceptions in order to to override the programing of the culture we're born into. We grow to appreciate the flexibility at our disposal and revamp our interactions accordingly.

All this is a result of real-time interaction, without the burden and general weight of conditioning. We redefine ourselves based on genuine feedback with the "intellectual" part riding along as a side-car.

We can indeed learn what others are thinking and observe the world that they form in relation to those thoughts, but we are simply not bound to their conclusions. Either individually or collectively.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2016, 04:31 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
history provides a context for understanding events. [in my estimation]
context provides an opportunity for meaning; there is absolutely
no meaning to anything without a context for it. [i believe]

i have no desire to experience meaninglessness.
What if you busily learned what you're learning only later to find out that that it's essentially worthless?

The context that you refer to has little to do with your current experience. You were not born and raised in a single room home with a dirt floor. "Distance" to you includes other countries on other continents, not to mention other galaxies in therms of light years. We have sciences that didn't exist in the days of historic speculations.

"Meaning" is conditional, and should be handled as such. You may find little in common with your next door neighbor, let alone the musings of cultures long gone.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2016, 05:47 PM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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Quote:
organic born: What if you busily learned what you're learning only later to find out that that it's essentially worthless?
as i have stated, i have no desire to experience meaninglessness.
if i were to experience "essentially worthless" (i.e., meaningless), then
who's will is guiding my life??? who supplies the intent for me?
do you imagine that you can answer that question honestly?
Quote:
organic born: The context that you refer to has little to do with your current experience.
do you have a knowledge of my current experience?
do you know of my comings and goings?
the length of my armspan?
"You would play upon me. You would seem to know my stops.
You would pluck out the heart of my mystery. You would sound
me from my lowest note to the top of my compass." ~ Hamlet
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2016, 05:54 PM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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Quote:
Baile: Our past defines us in many ways, yes.
But it does not and cannot bind us. I can study humanity's history
to get a sense of what has come before; what has transpired to
create the material present.
there is no power in the past. the past is a bygone.
we define the past from our position of power,
which exists in the present moment.
the past has not created the present.
the present is the moment of creation.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2016, 06:17 PM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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here's a song i like:
Carly Simon ~ The Right Thing To Do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiqcczYZnJ8
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  #19  
Old 11-05-2016, 06:25 PM
organic born organic born is offline
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.
You say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
history provides a context for understanding events. [in my estimation]
context provides an opportunity for meaning; there is absolutely
no meaning to anything without a context for it. [i believe]

i have no desire to experience meaninglessness.

And then you say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E
there is no power in the past. the past is a bygone.
we define the past from our position of power,
which exists in the present moment.
the past has not created the present.
the present is the moment of creation.

You seem to be arguing it both ways, based suspiciously on the discussion of the moment.
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2016, 08:16 PM
H:O:R:A:C:E H:O:R:A:C:E is offline
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i speak of empowerment.
i desire to empower people.

the second post was in response to statements which
attempt to remove power from humans and disperse
it in an unreachable past. i believe that the statements
i've made there are factual and beyond reproach.

the earlier posting was of observations that i have
developed. i see zero conflict between the two postings.
understanding is a thing which exists in the here and now.
events are markers placed within a framework of time.

i do not see a reason that you should be confused.
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