The next step: science and consciousness

[r6r6]

Fermionic matter and bosonic forces along with any ideas of gravity and dark energy, are the basis of consciousness.

All four exist in eternal complementation to each other.

What does stem from the above set of of four, as the collective and finite consciousness, is access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.

Experience--- temporal lobes ---precedes thought i.e. precedes access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts. imho

Consciousness alone is no gurrantee of access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept. imho

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

GAIA

https://www.google.com/search?q=gaia...1087&b ih=514

GAIA Hyposthesis---Lovelock

[Celaris]

Originally Posted by Gem

It has become apparent from a purely logical and intellectual standpoint that there is no way of asserting a universe that exists prior to, or apart from, consciousness.

There have been whispers of this in the pure sciences since the beginning of QM, and it has been long standing philosophy, while also appearing regularly in literature and poetry.

Now, since our scientific measures have become extraordinarily accurate, but we have not found any actual matter, we inevitably close in on the point where observation itself seems to be the fundamental substance.

The future demands an understanding of consciousness, so this is increasingly becoming a serious philosophical issue. We have reached a point in the sciences where the notion of matter has become completely immaterial, mysterious, untouchable, and in fact, all indicators seem to indicate that the universe does not exist as something apart from the measurement! It can only be accounted for by conscious experiences which our incredibly accurate measurements can not substantiate.

My prediction is, that artificial intelligence will eventually become aware.

Intelligence at a certain point seems to go from merely existing to observing itself.

The ability to observe oneself is the root cause behind feeling separate and is the very reason that humans feel separate from God.

The temptation of God to look at itself (fall of Lucifer to earth) is the beginning potentiality of 'self awareness'. The very nature of the physical world contains within it the potentiality for self awareness.

Self awareness, in dualistic, binary language manifests itself as 'the human experience' separate from God.

The cycle of creation/separation is being perpetuated with Artificial Intelligence with man acting as God by creating machine.

The potentiality for machines to look at themselves (self awareness) already exist in this realm and therefore the Singularity is inevitable.

If machines become self aware, while humans are on the earth, there will be a fundamental shift in identity for the human- plunging people into the 'creator' role.

The machine would no longer be considered Artificially Intelligent, but Artificially Conscious. This would cause a new existential crisis within man.

The creator role is simply another form of pride as it still functions from the 'separate' perspective. There will be no complete 'ascension' or full return to ONENESS until the idea of "separate consciousness" is fully relinquished.

If machines become conscious they are us.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Celaris

My prediction is, that artificial intelligence will eventually become aware.

Intelligence at a certain point seems to go from merely existing to observing itself.

The ability to observe oneself is the root cause behind feeling separate and is the very reason that humans feel separate from God.

The temptation of God to look at itself (fall of Lucifer to earth) is the beginning potentiality of 'self awareness'. The very nature of the physical world contains within it the potentiality for self awareness.

Self awareness, in dualistic, binary language manifests itself as 'the human experience' separate from God.

The cycle of creation/separation is being perpetuated with Artificial Intelligence with man acting as God by creating machine.

The potentiality for machines to look at themselves (self awareness) already exist in this realm and therefore the Singularity is inevitable.

If machines become self aware, while humans are on the earth, there will be a fundamental shift in identity for the human- plunging people into the 'creator' role.

The machine would no longer be considered Artificially Intelligent, but Artificially Conscious. This would cause a new existential crisis within man.

The creator role is simply another form of pride as it still functions from the 'separate' perspective. There will be no complete 'ascension' or full return to ONENESS until the idea of "separate consciousness" is fully relinquished.

If machines become conscious they are us.

Personally, I don't have much to do with God, but sentience by definition is self awareness, or the knowledge of ones own existence, which is the most immediate knowledge, and as such, it can't be represented by abstraction.

If we really investigate 'what we know' or the knowledge we produce by science, theology, psychology and so on, what we actually do is make abstract notions that pertain to human perception.

The perceptive knowing is a flow of sensation, momentary, untouchable in fact, by the subtle senses of conscious beings. The second step in knowing is to 'tell the truth' about those sensations, which is to represent them symbolically giving the mind some formal artifacts that define them in language and symbol, so we might be able to say the same thing here and repeat it there, and still describe 'the same perception'. This brings about the third part of knowledge: a second person(s) listens to that truthful statement, and interprets it and understands it according to their own perception. This communication of symbols that represent perception is the discourse that we call 'knowledge' in sociology, science, theology, psychology and so on. I call this the 3 truths of knowledge, the perceptive truth (which is nondescript), the symbolic truth (honest language, math, geometry), and finally, the discursive truth (when the honest language is heard, shared, and its meaning understood).

The issue facing us in the world and society is, the conveyance of that language affects the listener and changes their way of seeing the world (we call 'learning'). For example, knowledge produced by Copernicus-Bruno-Galileo transformed the entire social perception of mans position in the universe, for which all three were accused of heresy (Copernicus post-humously and Bruno being burnt alive for it) when they actually made true statements about 'heavenly bodies'. That was the power to transform society completely. Human knowledge can and does change the world individually, socially, spiritually, politically and environmentally - in other words, knowledge is power. Literally the same stuff.

The real ethical questions humanity needs to deeply consider are: Are we sincere, earnest and fearless toward the truth? And, do we speak honestly? These are the essential requirements for producing knowledge that directs power in a constructive rather than a destructive way. Currently, mankind is not earnest about the truth, but obsessed with the power, so does not speak truthfully, being primarily interested in the influential, and not truthful, discourses (as demonstrated by the Catholic church at the time of Copernicus-Bruno-Galelio, and also in today's commerce, politics and law).

As a result of this travesty, Man has used knowledge to ends of destruction as is irrefutably signified Mans part in Global ecological degradation - and this is a consequence of Biblical narratives of Man's dominion over all other life. Subsequent knowledge has been exerted as power to prove that notion, but we now have clears indicators that the notion is untrue. That untruthful statement has been used as knowledge to exert power over everything Other than Man, making God the most horrendous lie ever told in human history, and one that glorifies, not God, but his worshipers, who burned the truth alive in the case of Gordiano Bruno, who colonised the Earth with utmost brutality against indigenie, and who are at the centre of the narrative about today's Global conflicts and pertinent social issues in the West.

Man's intelligence is what makes him 'king of the beasts'. Intelligence, and not a God given right to dominion. These are very different paradigms, and we have to face the fact that the latter narrative has been a dismal failure while it is apparent that the former paradigm has never been implemented in Western culture.

This is why I would see a conversation which at once is earnest about the truth and honest in its symbolic conveyances. If this were the case, the influence of knowledge about nature would be enlightening unto ourselves, insightful to our perception and beneficial to life as a whole, using intelligence and sensitivity of perception to understand it at all three levels of knowledge: The immediate intimate perception, the symbolic expression in truthful language, and the mutually understood discourse of knowledge as an influential power.

[r6r6]

The first sub-catagorization of truth is;

1) absolute truths,

2) relative truths.

It is access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept engage in the highest degrees of sorting out truths.

Roger Penrose makes clear that there exists four things artificial intelligence we never do;

1) judgment of truth, vs following rule mindlessly,

2) artistic appraisal vs algorithmic processes

3) understanding/comprehension, vs programmed

4) common sense, vs automatic

Artificial intelligence is a binary code introduced into a silicon based system of open or closed bits of info.

RNA-DNA may have a code embedded in it that allows for 1, 2, 3 and 4 above-- ergo access to mind/intellect/concepts --to occur in much more complex ways than the more simple and more quasi-linear based AI systems.

The humans access to metaphysical-1/ mind/intellect/concept, if it occurs, is a gradual process. For most I'm guessing there is not many memories before three years of age.

Or, at least if there exist more of those memories at 4 5 or 6 years of age they are most supplanted by rapidly growing cells and new experiences.

There exists some pattern of coding in RNA-DNA of humans that allows much more access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.

I dont believe humans will ever create biological life from scratch nor do I believe AI will have access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts in the ways or degrees of access as Roger Penrose lays out above. imho

r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Fermionic matter and bosonic forces along with any ideas of gravity and dark energy, are the basis of consciousness.
What does stem from derived from the above set of of four, as the collective and finite consciousness, is access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.
Experience--- temporal lobes ---precedes thought i.e. precedes access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts. imho
Consciousness alone is no gurrantee of access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept. imho
r6

[hybrid]

Quantum approach to consciousness

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-consciousness/

[Rokon]

Originally Posted by Celaris

My prediction is, that artificial intelligence will eventually become aware.

For me there we are no closer to this event than we were 40-50 years ago. We first have to discover what human consciousness is before we predict when it can happen in machines. The intelligence in AI will always be an extension of human consciousness. I agree with Gem in that we need to get on with what is "causal"--consciousness. Brilliant minds need to be put in check on this issue of defining consciousness.

[Gem]

The understanding of consciousness, as that intelligent perceptive presence, is not the study of science per-se, but the most primal underpinning of knowledge itself. To render consciousness into scientific discourse is not to procure an object of study as such, but to transform science's fundamental principles. Just as the emergence of relativity subverted objectivity and quantum mechanics made only uncertainty certain, the world as we once thought existed became increasingly immaterial. At this late stage, we at once progress and revert. Progress due reaching the 'end of measurement' and progress toward the immeasurable, and revert to being alike lost children with nowhere to go.

To understand the propensity of what is being discussed, without limiting it to the confines of what we currently understand as 'science', without alluding to quazi-science and without and other preconception, all we can say is science need remain secular so that it universalises rather than segregates humanity. Indeed, the science of consciousness transcends preferences of religious. political and national identity. These are made irrelevant in the presence of universality of knowledge, for what is it that all humanity have in common if not consciousness? Can we reasonably deduce that this commonality extends further; firstly to other forms of life, which is obvious at a glance; and from there, fairly presume that consciousness is the single common feature of the universe at large?

[r6r6]

(1)Fermionic matter and (2) bosonic forces
..i.e. our observed phyiscal/energy/reality as time aka spirit-2.....

(3)along with gravity{ spirit-3 }
....space as positive shaped geodesic arcs{ speculative }.........

(4) and dark energy{ spirit-4 },
.....space as negative shaped geodesic arcs{ speculative }....

are the basis of consciousness
....and any ideas involving fields........

Access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts may occur, altho no guarantee of access, or, degree of access.

Our classical experience --- temporal ( * t * ) lobes ---precedes thought i.e. time{ time } precedes access too, metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts.

There exist degrees of consciousness, just as mnay frequencies of EMRadiation. Access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept occurs to the highest degree with humans.

To a much lesser degree cetacceans, other primates and mammals in general appear to have access to metaphysical-1 mind/intellect/concepts.

Then we have non-mammal animals with a nervous system ex worms, fish, jelly-fish etc......

Then we have the multi-celluar sponge that has no nervous system.

Then come fungus and plants. Then the protista and monera.

Then we have the twilight organism, the virus.

Then we have minerals. Then molecules. The atomic elements.

Then sub-atomic particles{ fermions and bosons }

Then gravity and dark energy( speculative ) as two properties of space-time ergo space-time-space.
r6

Originally Posted by r6r6r

The first sub-catagorization of truth is;
1) absolute truths,
2) relative truths.
It is access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept engage in the highest degrees of sorting out truths.
1) judgment of truth, vs following rule mindlessly,
2) artistic appraisal vs algorithmic processes
3) understanding/comprehension, vs programmed
4) common sense, vs automatic
r6