Do we really chose our lives before we are born?

[Lilyth Von Gore]

I hate this new age-y idea that we somehow deserve what happens to us in this life because of choices we made in a previous life.
It blames the victims of truly horrible crime in saying that they are deserving of that fate because of mistakes they made in a previous life. It's unfair.
I know I didn't choose this life. I didn't ask for what happened to me. No one does.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Lilyth Von Gore

I hate this new age-y idea that we somehow deserve what happens to us in this life because of choices we made in a previous life.
It blames the victims of truly horrible crime in saying that they are deserving of that fate because of mistakes they made in a previous life. It's unfair.
I know I didn't choose this life. I didn't ask for what happened to me. No one does.

Lilyth--

The idea (at least from my point of view) is not that previous sins/karma or anything like that determine what we make of this life, but rather choices that we make about what we feel we need to learn/experience in order to grow.

I personally know that, for instance, the illnesses we have are results of our own choices and spiritual imbalances or issues that we've failed to deal with. It may be impossible to see what "purpose" there is in a child being born sick or with an incurable disease, or being exposed to cruelty. When you see life in the context of the fact that it is infinite and that experience, not "good" experience is the goal, then that is easier to see.

Many hate the idea because it sounds like, in addition to being ill, they are being "blamed" for their illness. That is not at all what it is. I say from experience that (a) my illness was caused by issues that I have/had and (b) they began to ameliorate once I acknowledged that. With time, they can be cleared up. Sometimes there may be nothing to be "done" about an illness except to accept it and live life as fully as possible. Yes, difficult to imagine from where we are that this might be intentional. But from another frame of reference, I believe it can be understood.

So, this isn't some "new-agey" thing---it's a way of seeing ourselves based on our own experiences, and as full entities, only part of which are physical.

Acceptance of the responsibility of what we have created in our lives--our circumstances, our families and siblings and significant others, our choices of influences around us, etc.--are all us.

It's much easier to blame our lives on a God some other deity or devil. Then we can blame them, or fate, or assume there is no plan at all. It's your choice.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "

Lora

[love9]

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

Lilyth--

The idea (at least from my point of view) is not that previous sins/karma or anything like that determine what we make of this life, but rather choices that we make about what we feel we need to learn/experience in order to grow.

I personally know that, for instance, the illnesses we have are results of our own choices and spiritual imbalances or issues that we've failed to deal with. It may be impossible to see what "purpose" there is in a child being born sick or with an incurable disease, or being exposed to cruelty. When you see life in the context of the fact that it is infinite and that experience, not "good" experience is the goal, then that is easier to see.

Many hate the idea because it sounds like, in addition to being ill, they are being "blamed" for their illness. That is not at all what it is. I say from experience that (a) my illness was caused by issues that I have/had and (b) they began to ameliorate once I acknowledged that. With time, they can be cleared up. Sometimes there may be nothing to be "done" about an illness except to accept it and live life as fully as possible. Yes, difficult to imagine from where we are that this might be intentional. But from another frame of reference, I believe it can be understood.

So, this isn't some "new-agey" thing---it's a way of seeing ourselves based on our own experiences, and as full entities, only part of which are physical.

Acceptance of the responsibility of what we have created in our lives--our circumstances, our families and siblings and significant others, our choices of influences around us, etc.--are all us.

It's much easier to blame our lives on a God some other deity or devil. Then we can blame them, or fate, or assume there is no plan at all. It's your choice.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "

Lora

Hey Lora, I like your point of view, experience make a difference.

The best to you!

[Lilyth Von Gore]

What could someone possibly learn from being killed? How not to get killed?
What about someone like me, a survivor of assault? What could I possibly have learned from that? I already didn't trust anyone.
I'm sorry. I refuse to believe that anyone chooses to suffer. And who do we blame for being victims? Ourselves? That's apology. Believing the victim is to blame for what happened to them. No one intentionally puts themselves in that situation. Anyone who believes so, in my eyes, is an apologist. I understand enough to know there is no way someone would choose that.

[kris]

I don't think we choose to suffer either. We make all kinds of choices in our lives but I don't think suffering is one of them. But our choices have consequences, some of which we don't see coming at us when we make the choices. Some of these consequences can be very painful and thus we suffer.

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by Lilyth Von Gore

What could someone possibly learn from being killed? How not to get killed?
What about someone like me, a survivor of assault? What could I possibly have learned from that? I already didn't trust anyone.
I'm sorry. I refuse to believe that anyone chooses to suffer. And who do we blame for being victims? Ourselves? That's apology. Believing the victim is to blame for what happened to them. No one intentionally puts themselves in that situation. Anyone who believes so, in my eyes, is an apologist. I understand enough to know there is no way someone would choose that.

Lilyth--

Death itself (by murder or otherwise) is an experience. If you don't judge experiences as good or bad and you realize that you have infinite time to experience everything, then being killed could be one of them. It could be a returned favor to someone who you killed in a previous life. (I'm not saying karma.) There are as many reasons for an event as their are people. And we will never entirely understand reasons from our perspective in physical. You will eventually see that taking responsibility for your life is the only way to regain your power.

But your post contains the answer you seek to your own experience. "I already didn't trust anyone." Sounds like the challenge you already had--has been greatly increased. Turning this negativing into something good is always what we are trying to learn. It sounds impossible and will make you mad--but when you can honestly see your experience as something that made you strong in ways you weren't and improved your life, you will have done something great. Perhaps your experience led you to spirituality that you never realized existed before. That is a gift--the toughest thing to see through this hologram to what lies beyond. You are consciousness controlling this all, aware at much higher levels that this.

I'm not saying that anything isn't hard from our point of view in life. Every life has hardship. How we handle it is the point.

Lora

[Lilyth Von Gore]

I don't see how I can turn something like being sexually assaulted into a positive thing. There is nothing positive about that.
Answer this. If we already know how horrible something is, why the Hell would our higher selves choose that, KNOWING we might not survive? What's the point of that?
Again. I refuse to believe that I chose this path. No one chooses their lives.

Yes, I chose to hang out with a very dear friend of mine because I was depressed and alone. He chose to take advantage of my trust in him. Who's to blame here? Not me.

[Black Sheep]

I refuse to believe that I chose this path. No one chooses their lives.

It's your right to believe what you choose. As someone who experienced sexual abuse, I understand your need to feel how you do. I found it to be really healing too, or helpful on the path to healing.

So, I do think that it is an important step on the path of healing as well to feel as you do. Why would our higher selves choose to experience something we might not survive, that's a good question to ask your higher self, and one I wish you will get an answer. I don't feel like the answer can really come from another person, I can say this or that, but really, I'm not a messenger and I feel you have some strong walls put up(which is perfectly well and good).

I do think it's important to say that there is no blame, although if you feel the need to blame, go ahead, get it out, get angry, feel it, sit with it; no judgement.

Eventually, when we are ready, we don't just ask those hard questions, but we face them. Unlike others may say, I don't recommend those books on "inbetween" lives for those who've experienced abuse as I found the books highly disempowering(as well as incomplete in the nuances really) and found far superior answers through connecting with my own guides.

I've asked similar questions, like how can there be anything positive in something so negative; I did first eventually find a neutrality though, then understanding, which did yield a positive, but not through ordinary means and really only within.

So in short, I just want to honor your feelings, your experiences, your rights, beliefs and needs. :)

[Lilyth Von Gore]

No blame? Howabout the man who took advantage of my trust in him? Is he not to blame for ruining my life?

[Black Sheep]

Like I said, if you feel the need to blame, go ahead.

I'm not going to get into this subject with you, as I'm just not into going in circles which it seems to be headed. And I'm a bad dance partner. :) In relation to the topic, I do remember bits of what happened inbetween lives, as well as what happened in other lives, so I just speak from my own experience.

Anyway, that's just to say, I can relate to how you feel, I'm not sure about you, but the anger I was expressing was about 1/10 what I was feeling inside. I also remember how when I followed that line of thinking you are on, how it really helped me heal, when I followed it to the fullest extreme I could, no plateau(as I've seen lots of friends in similar situations get stuck in various parts of the healing process). That's really all well and good though, as we heal as best we can, at the pace we need.

I just want to verbally state that I support you, it isn't okay what happened, and I hope you are able to reach that point of understanding that will bring that exhale of release to your life.