Convincing family to go vegan

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

The thing that got my family was seeing me occasionally eat some dairy or butter. and they all throw a fuss.. "OMG hes eating death and cancer". And i calmly explain occasional stuff like that isn't killing me because 90% of my diet is raw alkaline vegan. My body has what it needs to fight off the butter and any other dis-ease that may try to form. that discussion alone got all of them thinking...maybe if i do a real smoothie for lunch every day ill start feeling better. (doesn't hurt for them to hear, my smoothies for a week cost less than $30) Then once that happens it leads to picking a healthier dinner and then eventually both meals are vegan and next thing you know they're sounding like the crazy vegan to their friends asking me how to help convince their friends to go vegan too.

I just encourage one live meal usually juice or shake a day to help lower blood pressure and cholesterol. Those results usually spark more action on their own.

Maybe they worry because it's been proven that animal product consumption causes bodily inflammation within a couple hours of eating it and we all know that inflammation is the perfect environment to begin a downward spiral of heart disease, diabetes, MS, cancers......

I was talking with a woman who's husband was diagnosed a few years ago with MS. He had a choice, $60,000.00 a year for his medications or go vegan. He chose vegan and now 5 years later, he's symptom free and has lost a lot of weight! And his wife who was diagnosed with fatty live disease and heart disease, has lost 100 pounds and reversed her diagnoses, as well.

Veganism is the only diet that reverses disease. And being a member of a whole foods plant based group, daily I get to read that someone has gotten rid of their arthritis pain, lost 100 pounds, regained normal heart function.....and now MS.

The MS testimonial came as no surprise because I read an article Dr. Greger wrote about a researcher who had been studying that very issue for the past 30 years who finally came to the conclusion that a whole food plant diet cures MS.

So yeah, your family should be concerned about your butter intake because it isn't good for you. And if you or anyone you know is eating animal products throughout the day, even little amounts, your body spends its day in a continual state of some degree of inflammation. https://nutritionfacts.org/2014/07/2...sis-with-diet/

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by DaughterofDanu

Almost all cultures both past and present eat or ate meat. It's a part of humanity whether it's ethical/healthy or not. So it's a hard habit for some to break. By being kind and understanding of that it takes the edge off and helps people to open up more and do some soul searching as to why they're fighting making healthier changes. Just my thoughts. Good luck!!

At the same time, researchers have discovered that some of our neanderthal ancestors were pretty much vegetarians/vegans. So just because humanity learned to do something doesn't automatically make it good for us. The fact that people who give up animal products very often find that their disease issues are reversed is a testament to that.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Just wondering if you noticed that fvegan is a vegan? Suggesting fatty meat is a little inappropriate. It's like my mother going on and on to me about how wonderful the roast beef was last night....

I know that my recommendation is not exactly vegan. However, the poster seems to be mostly concerned about the health of the parents.
He thinks that a vegan diet would be the solution and I only offered an alternative with an excellent and proven success rate in improving the health of many people, although not all.

fvegan can of course put intellectual and ethical considerations ahead of the health ones. That is his/her choice, but I do not think it inappropriate to suggest alternatives. One option only is not a choice, two or more are.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by markings

I know that my recommendation is not exactly vegan. However, the poster seems to be mostly concerned about the health of the parents.
He thinks that a vegan diet would be the solution and I only offered an alternative with an excellent and proven success rate in improving the health of many people, although not all.

fvegan can of course put intellectual and ethical considerations ahead of the health ones. That is his/her choice, but I do not think it inappropriate to suggest alternatives. One option only is not a choice, two or more are.

Maybe the problem is that you forgot what the original situation was that was causing the disease in vegan's parents:

'.....My parents are suffering from very high blood pressure, and I'm really worried they are going to suffer from a heart attack if they don't change their heavy meat and dairy based diets.....'

Definitely sure that suggesting 'fatty meat' to a vegan, who's trying to get parents to at least try a vegan diet (or even just cut back on the ****)....is bizarre to say the least.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by markings

Try the Banting diet. Cut out as much carbs as possible, Sugar, Bread, Rice, Pasta. Eat as much as you want of vegetables, protein and fatty meat.

Calories are still an issue, and fat is very calorie dense be it animal or vege derived (same cals per gram in both). True enough to say that carbs are not an essential nutrient - but all veges contain some amount of them, so it's more like an 'inevitable nutrient'. Potatoes, beans, corn, lentils, chickpeas and some other veges are very high in carbs...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Debrah

At the same time, researchers have discovered that some of our neanderthal ancestors were pretty much vegetarians/vegans. So just because humanity learned to do something doesn't automatically make it good for us. The fact that people who give up animal products very often find that their disease issues are reversed is a testament to that.

It bacically depends on environment, so people in lusher regions would eat less meat and more vege stuff, and people living in high altitudes, polar regions, deserts, islands would eat less veg and more animal products.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

The thing that got my family was seeing me occasionally eat some dairy or butter. and they all throw a fuss.. "OMG hes eating death and cancer". And i calmly explain occasional stuff like that isn't killing me because 90% of my diet is raw alkaline vegan. My body has what it needs to fight off the butter and any other dis-ease that may try to form. that discussion alone got all of them thinking...maybe if i do a real smoothie for lunch every day ill start feeling better. (doesn't hurt for them to hear, my smoothies for a week cost less than $30) Then once that happens it leads to picking a healthier dinner and then eventually both meals are vegan and next thing you know they're sounding like the crazy vegan to their friends asking me how to help convince their friends to go vegan too.

I just encourage one live meal usually juice or shake a day to help lower blood pressure and cholesterol. Those results usually spark more action on their own.

Animal products are essential to human diets, B12 in particular, but also creatine, carnosine, and other essential or beneficial nutrients. Your taste for dairy in healthy in this sense.

A vegan diet is fair for all ethical considerations but people promoting it really should educate interested parties on dietary supplements the body requires, or is most likely to be deficient in pure plant diets.

[AtTheHawksWell]

Originally Posted by Debrah

Definitely sure that suggesting 'fatty meat' to a vegan, who's trying to get parents to at least try a vegan diet (or even just cut back on the ****)....is bizarre to say the least.

In fairness, the OP asked for suggestions to reduce their parents' meat intake, not eliminate it. But yes, the reply appeared to be directed at the OP, and that was confusing and odd.

Bizarre to me is this entire secondary discussion: categorizing a vegan diet as a mere intellectual or ethical choice, like it's some kind of whim, while presenting meat consumption as the healthy (implying 'correct') choice. Also the statement about how human beings must consume animal products (not true), and that vegans need to educate themselves in this regard. This is the Vegan Forum. How is it we ended up discussing how wrong and uninformed vegans are, and how appropriate and necessary it is to consume animal products?

In a Vegan Forum, where vegans gather to discuss their very healthy and very informed ethical, dietary and lifestyle choice, all that needs to be communicated is something along the lines of Tobi's post #7: "Go via the taste buds, not words. Cook up a really tasty vegan dinner." Straight up truth: talking about anything else in this forum - specifically, the health benefits/need to consume meat and animal products - is unnecessary, inappropriate and, frankly, insulting. And if you were a vegan you would understand why I say that. And if you're not a vegan, I'd suggest you shouldn't be posting at all, and especially comments of the above-mentioned variety.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by AtTheHawksWell

In fairness, the OP asked for suggestions to reduce their parents' meat intake, not eliminate it. But yes, the reply appeared to be directed at the OP, and that was confusing and odd.

Bizarre to me is this entire secondary discussion: categorizing a vegan diet as a mere intellectual or ethical choice, like it's some kind of whim, while presenting meat consumption as the healthy (implying 'correct') choice. Also the statement about how human beings must consume animal products (not true), and that vegans need to educate themselves in this regard. This is the Vegan Forum. How is it we ended up discussing how wrong and uninformed vegans are, and how appropriate and necessary it is to consume animal products?

There are essential nutrients that only exist naturally in animal products, but these can be purchased in supplement form or in vegan foods which are fortified with them.

In a Vegan Forum, where vegans gather to discuss their very healthy and very informed ethical, dietary and lifestyle choice, all that needs to be communicated is something along the lines of Tobi's post #7: "Go via the taste buds, not words. Cook up a really tasty vegan dinner." Straight up truth: talking about anything else in this forum - specifically, the health benefits/need to consume meat and animal products - is unnecessary, inappropriate and, frankly, insulting. And if you were a vegan you would understand why I say that. And if you're not a vegan, I'd suggest you shouldn't be posting at all, and especially comments of the above-mentioned variety.

[Debrah]

Originally Posted by Gem

There are essential nutrients that only exist naturally in animal products, but these can be purchased in supplement form or in vegan foods which are fortified with them.

On the other hand, the informed consumer knows that the only nutrient that is absolutely not in a vegan diet is B12 and further, that animals don't actually produce that B12 in their flesh as a result of their own physiological processes. What needs to also be remembered is that those animals also need to be supplemented (either through their 'feed' or from eating off the dirt or drinking dirty water).

As far as I know, that's it. Everything else is available through plants.