Why does God not show him/her/itself?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Busby

It seems so davidsun - that part about going over my head - you'll need to explain as I cannot see the point you are making.

You said: "It has I suppose led to nothing other than total confusion." Considering differences in perspective (points of view) and consequently contemplating the significances of different 'summary' conclusions is a means whereby folks may develop greater 'depth perception'* (pertaining to any subject). 'Nothing other' than 'total confusion' is a 'summary' judgment which I don't share. As I indicated, I thought/think this is a great thread and so lauded you for starting it.

* https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/b...e-elephant.htm

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

So where does Spirituality sit with all of that?

Not sure what you mean...it was his exp...and a wonderful one.
Can u be more specific?

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Not sure what you mean...it was his exp...and a wonderful one.
Can u be more specific?

I don't know the guy personally but from the video he looks like a 'normal' guy who's had a mind-blowing experience that has completely 'rebooted' his ego (what he went through sounds very much like the 'real' ego-death') and has a grasp on Spiritual concepts that most gurus would be proud of. Who wouldn't want to have a few beers and a chat with him? You can come along too, we can make a night of it.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I don't know the guy personally but from the video he looks like a 'normal' guy who's had a mind-blowing experience that has completely 'rebooted' his ego (what he went through sounds very much like the 'real' ego-death') and has a grasp on Spiritual concepts that most gurus would be proud of. Who wouldn't want to have a few beers and a chat with him? You can come along too, we can make a night of it.

Got it and agree!!

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi there Greenslade,

Yes there is more.

What plays in my mind at the moment is there seems a discussion here of what mentally one may be conscious of and what perhaps is energetically what one is conscious of or is just there.

You present being conscious of what one is not conscious of. This brings me to ask in what manner is this being looked at? If on the mental/thinking way can understand that consciousness emerges with in our thoughts and basic senses.
On an energenic level, intuitive level it seems there is also a consciousness.

A person can sense and feel something about another, a place, something going on with the body, but may not know exactly what it is. A hunch, a "sixth" sense, perhaps even a physical reaction of some kind. Isn't this also being conscious?

You see, for me, it is finding the connections to being this physical being and being Spirit taking on this experience. Both, conscious in some way and existing and experiencing life here. Both, with in the consciousness of being.

There is a lot of talk about whether consciousness is mental or is it Ethreal, what about it being both? Meaning our makeup is more then just the physical stuff our basic senses of sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell can pick up. That is to say if one has those faculties functioning. We also, have an energetic part of us that may send sensations to our minds and body, as far as I can tell.

Which brings the thoughts to me that this intuitive sense may be what you seem to present is the conscious part that is sensed before one is able to fully process it. That which mentally may not be conscious of in our minds, but energetically/Spiritually(through Spirit) is conscious of some way.

Then as it gets processed emerges with in the mind and created in some manner in order to make use or sense of it or may be dismissed. What is sensed doesn't change, but ones perspective may shift ones focus. Make sense?

So, God may be what one senses through this energenic bond transmitted to the physical existance and creating the sensation/awareness of a presence there.
May be not able to pin it down because there is no specific point in which to do so.

Much in the same way consciousness just is.

It seems what one does with what one is aware of and conscious of and able to do seems to be the choices given and adjustments made. For me atleast.

Hey there Moonglow, I hope you're keeping your head down with this Coronavirus


Yes there is more, but it's in less. You see, it's playing in your mind and it's a mental process, but consciousness is beyond the mind/mental process.

You are already conscious and that's the understanding - you are not lacking in consciousness because you already have it. You have a body (unless you're really just a brain in a jar) and all that comes with it because your are conscious. The conscious comes first, the mental processes come second. The mental processes are not 'generating' consciousness but consciousness has (past tense) created the mental processes. That's the difference.

it's called the 'hard question' in science because for the moment nobody has solved it - not even close. You have an experience of being alive right now, and as you look across your landscape (OK, your living room because you're on lockdown) you are creating that reality in the moment. All of your senses are sending electrical signals to the brain in their own format and your brain processes them. They become electrical and chemical processes in your noggin. The 'hard question' in science is how does that mechanical process become conscious experience?

Science knows that, for instance, they can put a powerful magnet on the side of your head and that stops the brain from processing all colour on that side of the brain. Close one eye and all you can see is black and white, take the magnet away and it goes back to colour again. Somewhere in between is the mystery, there seems to be no 'connection' whatsoever, there is nothing that has been found that 'translates' electrical signals into consciousness - yet we still have that conscious experience.

We still don't know what a sixth sense is, scientifically speaking but that doesn't mean it's suddenly going to vanish. At the same though it's still electrical signals that are processed by the brain, otherwise we wouldn't know it's there and somehow we end up being conscious of it.

Where does our conscious experience of God come from? Everything that you can write on this forum about God has been processed via electrical and chemical processes in your brain, but where did the cause of those signals originate? Is God a result of your background, is it something you intuitively know, do you have a sixth sense, does all of the above mean that God is signals flying around in your noggin?

Did you know you have a 'God gene'? It's thought that there is a specific gene that is responsible for your belief in God as much as your background is? It's quite possible that your sense of God is not God at all but you're predisposed because of your genes.

What is beyond the brain processes, what is beyond awareness? What is beyond the adjustments?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What is beyond the brain processes, what is beyond awareness? What is beyond the adjustments?

I assume by the use of the word 'beyond' you are finger pointing to 'pure' 'consciousness' as being primary, and so saying that the other things: 'brain processes', 'awareness', and 'adjustments' are secondary, here GS.

If so, let me say that I think this is a kind of artificial separation - potentially enlightening and useful in certain ways.

I personally like to think and operate on the premises that 'spirit' is primary and that 'consciousness' is of secondary 'use'. Without spirit (i.e. energy, desire(?), purpose), 'consciousness' would just be 'twiddling' its 'thumbs', or 'self' as the case may be and quite often is the case here, 'diddling' about doing 'nothing' (in effect), thinking and acting 'cool' and 'sophisticated'.

Originally Posted by davidsun

I assume by the use of the word 'beyond' you are finger pointing to 'pure' 'consciousness' as being primary, and so saying that the other things: 'brain processes', 'awareness', and 'adjustments' are secondary, here GS.

If so, let me say that I think this is a kind of artificial separation - potentially enlightening and useful in certain ways.

I personally like to think and operate on the premises that 'spirit' is primary and that 'consciousness' is of secondary 'use'. Without spirit (i.e. energy, desire(?), purpose), 'consciousness' would just be 'twiddling' its 'thumbs', or 'self' as the case may be and quite often is the case here, 'diddling' about doing 'nothing' (in effect), thinking and acting 'cool' and 'sophisticated'.

Consciousness is fundamental, David, and when you realise that it all falls into place.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yah, to all that! Here's an interesting article about 'open'-mindedness - https://getpocket.com/explore/item/o...=pocket-newtab - not everyone is 'open' to being conscious of the complexities you perceive and (sometimes ) articulate.

I tend to be choosy about what I articulate and to whom.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Regarding the "The more things change the more they stay the same" sound-bite tho, I have to say that I think this is slanted, 'comfort-seeking' justifying-n-reinforcing ("there is being a part of us or 'something' that never changes" propaganda. I myself prefer and advocate think, feeling, believing and acting on the basis that 'we' (or at least 'I' and others like 'me') are really dynamically ever-surfing towards more and more magnificently varied (Love-and Joy-ful) experiences and expressions of Life's Being-and-Becoming process. In my view, 'comfort' is a 'seductive' kind of 'petite mort' (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_petite_mort) which leads to atrophy and stagnation if it is over-indulgently (i.e. extensively) 'bathed' in, IMO.

Look around you David, and especially at what this Coronavirus has brought out. People are panic-buying and the most vulnerable in society are the ones who pay that cost, some think they have the right to ignore government guidelines and measures that have been brought into place to protect fairness, others think they have the right to beat up supermarket staff who won't let them have an allocation of toilet roll. Love and joyful experiences? How much of that has been going on since Biblical times?

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Busby

When I started this thread I never could have imagined that it would still be alive and kicking three years later.
It has I suppose led to nothing other than total confusion.
I'd like to say that I have, in my opinion, answered my own question somewhere else on SF, namely that 'god' when 'setting up' this present universe, constructed certain laws, those we call natural laws or the nuclear, electromagnetic, and laws of gravity, placed 'himself' within these laws. To 'show himself' in the manner I suggested, would mean breaking these laws - and this is not, or wouldn't be permissible, as miracles in our universe don't exist. Thus 'God' showing himself would be such a one.

Here is a NDE which I can absolutely identify myself with - it's one of the best, if not the best I have ever listened to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2NLEYHjG1g

Busby,

You once asked me to "guide you to one miracle please, just one" http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...82&postcount=3

...and here you are showing us one that you found, yourself, "which you can absolutely identify with" told by a fellow human being, who has, arguably provided the profound proof of a miracle you've always sought, but forgot (as he so poignantly stated).

Thank YOU for showing us how to remember with this awesome gift you were guided to provide yourself, and shared with us.

So now you know that the "miracle" of coming to this plane, voluntarily, is self-created in its entirety by our own God-given abilities to "freely create as we will"...whether it be to create what it's like to imprison ourselves at home in fear...

...or to freely exercise the ability to playfully "turn water into wine", in the presence of other Creator-Gods at a friend's wedding, or to "walk on water", or "raise the dead", or "heal the sick", all of whom (we now know) had fearfully forgotten that they (we) too, could do so if they (we) choose to remember that WE ARE CREATOR-GODS, too !!.

In reply to the title you gave this thread 3 years ago, it seems that God's answer is the "inner tug" that returns us to the beach where our true selves are creatively playing with one another. We Creator-Gods can choose to remember, on one or other side of the "veil", the gift of ourselves as we have always been.

Ever here. Even now. Loved....

I wonder what Rich Kelly has done since his "inner tug" brought him back to tell us "What dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil", for an eternity in an hour, in answer to Hamlet's question in your signature?

To see a World in a Grain of Sand And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour.
William Blake

Miracles 'r us!

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Consciousness is fundamental, David, and when you realise that it all falls into place.

Evidently - for you, that is.