Depression "A" and Depression "B"

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Oh yes, the Recovery Model...I am very familiar with it.

I am a consumer of the 'Partner's In Recovery' network and I understand the holistic approach of organisations such as NEAMI (who I missed last week) and they are 'goal orientated'.

Oh yes, I've had a bit of involvement with NEAMI in regards to homelessness, and they are really holistic in their approach. I think they use the word 'collaboration' or 'participation' quite a bit as well.

However, I refer to the likes of general practitioners and even psychiatrists who see themselves as outside the model, offering 5 minute appointments, treating you as a case/file number and prescribe the latest pill the little men and their briefcases showed the doctor last week...handing out pens and coffee mugs in the process...

The bio-medical approach is over medicalised and treats the individual body while completely neglecting the life circumstances within which the person exists. I mean, how can any measure of reason suppose that could work? It could be accessed as one part of the issue, but it's not likely to produce good outcomes on its own. More likely to be more harm than good, and very unlikely to address underlying issues.

I guess I am a bit of a sceptic about the whole medical profession, but I agree that some pharmas are useful...it's just that they are being used incorrectly.

...DSM V already? my oversight and I apologise. Time flies...

Yep DSM V 2013. Pretty much the same though.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

Regarding depression B as you describe it: I would attribute more to hubris, and also a lack of inner development - the ability to quietly center and to let things go, for example. Those are but two manifestations of what I call the cultural illness of our 21st century. The social-information age and our media-saturated celebrity society has widely contributed to this. "Must have it now" has become the mantra for the entire world really, a kind of out-of-control corporate-consumerism of the soul life. In all honesty, disconnecting from TV and the internet, and finding a quiet place in nature, are probably all it would take for most to heal.

Ground is correct in pointing out there are a multitude of different forms of depression. And consulting a professional is always wise. I did, I went the whole route: therapy, antidepressant drugs, etc. I eventually settled on a holistic drug-free approach to my healing, which was much slower and took many years. It involved self-examination mostly: changing my life outlook and attitude. And also letting go of my strident and over-bearing spiritual-religious beliefs which were particularly detrimental to my mental and psychic well-being. But you see, spirituality - the belief one "spiritually knows" - is just another form of hubris, so it makes perfect sense.

Thank you for your wonderful post, Baile and my guides also said a similar thing to me in a previous post....it's all about 'letting go' and giving up the notion one can control/direct the outcome of events to their favour...so, in a way, I guess it is hubris...but the Lord has a nasty way of fighting back - by placing 6 people between me and an ATM and none ever line up behind me to make me feel any better about it....I am like 'icwotudidthar'...but I still get annoyed. lol

Let's say He likes to emphasise it and blow it all way up out of proportion because I haven't learned my lesson yet. No wonder I am a nervous wreck...but yeah, a holiday sounds nice...maybe some 'CBT to go'...

Thank you for your post and I shall reflect upon it deeply. I can see your inner-light and wisdom through your expression - one of the very few on here I can tell where they are at.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yes, basically a professional has a lot of experience with people and their symptoms, but essentially they are guessing. The more successful outcomes are derived when the client and the treating professional collaborate like team players, allowing the client to describe the problem in their own terms. We know that sometimes a 'label' can be help some people to make sense of their thoughts feelings and behaviours, whereas other people do not like being boxed in by a label. The main issue with labels is they are often said to be 'incurable diseases' requiring life long medication to manage symptoms, which simply isn't true for many cases. Some of these medications have severe side effects, and cause serious detriment to people when taken over the long term. Not that I'm against medications as a rule, because for some people meds are an important part of their treatment plan. I'm just against the lie that they are the only option in regards to all cases.




The good thing about professional mental health workers is they have the training, education and experience behind them - but on the other hand, there is a lot of literature describing the shortcomings of mental health services - so if you can collaborate with a professional they will have knowledge and skills to give good ideas ad expand your options, but becoming entrenched in the mental health system can be a terrible thing - so a good balance, which gets you assistance that you actually need is a bit difficult to navigate in the circumstances, but certainly possible.

The thing with 'labels' is without them, the symptoms are just random symptoms of anything. I said today that if 'depression' is just a label, then so is 'frustration' and 'impatience' and 'irritability' and 'annoyance'...yup, all labels.

I experienced the shortcomings of mental health services personally - so much so I was approached to speak to a group of mental health services people about it - but I couldn't be bothered.

Suffice to say that the whole Model of Recovery designed by psychologists at Wollongong University was flawed and could use a bit of work.

Camera = Focus on Strengths and Goals
Compass = Focus on defining Goals, achievement and barriers towards growth
Map = Outline the ways/support networks etc to achieve the targets as per the Compass

That's basically IT and that's ALL they do and refer back to it again....and again...

[Shivani Devi]

My guides chimed in again:

"God thinks you are amusing. You are His favourite plaything and He'll stop when He gets bored and finds something better to do".

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

The thing with 'labels' is without them, the symptoms are just random symptoms of anything. I said today that if 'depression' is just a label, then so is 'frustration' and 'impatience' and 'irritability' and 'annoyance'...yup, all labels.

I experienced the shortcomings of mental health services personally - so much so I was approached to speak to a group of mental health services people about it - but I couldn't be bothered.

Suffice to say that the whole Model of Recovery designed by psychologists at Wollongong University was flawed and could use a bit of work.

Camera = Focus on Strengths and Goals
Compass = Focus on defining Goals, achievement and barriers towards growth
Map = Outline the ways/support networks etc to achieve the targets as per the Compass

That's basically IT and that's ALL they do and refer back to it again....and again...

Sounds infantile. Going on strengths is good, but things are complicated and there aren't any simple little formulas. I would have thought the people at NEAMI would be pretty good though.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Sounds infantile. Going on strengths is good, but things are complicated and there aren't any simple little formulas. I would have thought the people at NEAMI would be pretty good though.

They are nice, friendly and professional...it's just that I doubt they've ever had a client like me before - I also did my Dip Psych back in 2001 and I've worked in the welfare industry myself on and off. Was a long time ago now though. Added to which I am like the first Asperger's adult they have ever seen...they are pretty much totally fascinated by me. lol

[Shivani Devi]

As a point to the above, I have been feeling really bad all day - just 'out of sorts'.

At 5am, a truck was reversing somewhere (for a long time) - or it could have been electronic scaffolding or a forklift in a nearby factory...I dunno...

For 4 hours, non-stop...every second of those 4 hours I heard a high pitched 'beep' and I couldn't shut it out or turn it off.

In the end, by 9am I was stark, raving bonkers...'stimming' (overstimulating) on the floor and having a nervous convulsive fit.

I thought about going out...but I thought 'this will end soon...it MUST end soon...make it STOP...PLEASE...for the love of all things holy, MAKE IT STOP".

It took 5mg Valium, ear plugs, noise cancelling headphones and two pillows over my head before I was able to shut it out.

It stopped by itself 5 minutes later.

This is what it is like - welcome to my morning.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

They are nice, friendly and professional...it's just that I doubt they've ever had a client like me before - I also did my Dip Psych back in 2001 and I've worked in the welfare industry myself on and off. Was a long time ago now though. Added to which I am like the first Asperger's adult they have ever seen...they are pretty much totally fascinated by me. lol

One thing about the DSM V is the Asperger's diagosis has been removed and re-incorporated within 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. 'Autistic Disorder' had also been removed and it's symptoms included in the ASD category. Some changes have been made the symptoms criteria for diagnosis and 'severity levels' have been introduced based on what level of support an individual requires. In addition, a new disorder, 'social communication disorder' has been introduced, which lists some symptoms of what was previously Asperger's and/or Autism disorder. This means the label 'Asperger's' is no longer, and I'm not sure what that means to people who have associated with that diagnosis for a long time. I dare say people generally don't like being told 'you are no longer that, and now you shall be classified this'.

Well, this doesn't so much speak to the person as it does speak to the arbitrary manner in which DSM classifications are made. Not that what we think of as symptoms are not real - they are observably real - but the way in which these understood in terms of diagnoistic categories is pretty much whimsically constructed using the bio-medical discursive framework.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

One thing about the DSM V is the Asperger's diagosis has been removed and re-incorporated within 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. 'Autistic Disorder' had also been removed and it's symptoms included in the ASD category. Some changes have been made the symptoms criteria for diagnosis and 'severity levels' have been introduced based on what level of support an individual requires. In addition a new disorder, 'social communication disorder' had been introduced, which lists some symptoms of what was previously Asperger's and/or Autism disorder. This means the lable 'Asperger's' is no longer, and i'm not sure what that means to people who have associated with it for a long time. I dare say people generally don't like being told 'you are no longer that, and now you shall be classified this'. Well, this doesn't so much speak to the person as it does speak to the arbitrary manner in which DSM classifications are made. Not that what we think of as symptoms are not real - they are observably real - but the way in which these understood in terms of diagnoistic categories is pretty much whimsically constructed using the bio-medical discursive framework.

Well, all that means is I get to say I have high-functioning autism then. I'll still call it Asperger's because it wouldn't be fair to Hans, not to. Then again, I could also say I have Borderline Personality Disorder and there wouldn't be much difference between that and Social Communication Disorder..or I could just call it "Necro's Disorder" characterised by sensitivity to external stimuli, overstimulation, nervous ticks and partial seizures, social communication problems, inability to pick up on body language and social cues, clumsiness and awkwardness, having a very limited range of interests, having a genius IQ, having a photographic and eidetic memory, not 'getting people' and no getting their jokes and sarcasm, being able to speak 4 dead languages and understand heiroglyphs and cryptic signs, having functional weaknesses and cognitive impairments in other areas - like not being able to put a key on a keychain or do up shoelaces...yeah "Necro's Disorder". As long as the government sees I cannot work like this and can make no positive contribution towards material society and still gives me the DSP, I don't care what they call it, but thanks so much for the explanation.