Heaven or Reincarnation?

[Left Behind]

Originally Posted by Ahimsa

It's so hard to be definite on this one. There are infinite possibilities, really. But my version of it goes something like this:

We are spiritual beings, and incarnating as human is just one part of our experience. We really are so much more than just this one lifetime. We existed before and we will exist after. We exist above and below and all around this one incarnation. And when it is over, our souls will continue on. We are our souls- that is who we really are. Life here is something of a dream, in a way.
I believe in reincarnation- from my perspective, I know without a doubt that it happens. What we call "heaven" is a human interpretation of the blissful aspect of the divine. The "gates of heaven" refer to the the doorway into the divine that we experience through death, or through profound meditation or spiritual awakening. When I use the word "God" I am referring to what I call "the light". It's the source, it's the sum total of it all, it's loving and bright and beautiful and dynamic. I have seen this light; I know it is there. There are beings that operate within it, to it and from it, as messengers and guides. These beings are the angels. They are not human, and they can be very helpful. They are radiant. I have seen one of them and it was like nothing else I have ever seen.
When we die, we go through a process of spiritual transcendence of the body. We shed the body and return to our more pure form, which is the soul. In doing this, we go through a series of stages. In one or more of these stages, we process the life left behind. This is the process we call "purgatory". It is called this name because here the soul is essentially purged of its earthly life. We process and release all of our deeds, and we experience the truth about ourselves. It can be very painful, but we need to do this in order to release from the body and the lifetime. Failure to transcend through this stage can result in an earthbound state, which creates ghosts.
We can and often do go through stages of this "life review" process while we are alive. In truth, death is simply a magnification of what occurs in life. If we work on ourselves and face our truth, though it may be scary, we will do the same in death and we will pass through the stages and go straight into the light of the divine. If we run away from ourselves and fail to face our truth, it will be particularly difficult for us to in death to purge and move on.
My experience has taught me that there is a realm in which beings who shun the light of the divine tend to cluster. This realm is shut away from the light because the beings who cluster there have no wish to be near the light. There are some powerfully negative beings there, and there is a conscious effort of some sort to maintain a boundary which wards off the light. The beings in this place are often in a state of great pain and suffering. I have seen some of them, and I call them demons. There are dark entities there which do try to reach out and encourage vulnerable souls to join them. One way they do this is by taking advantage of compromised individuals and coercing them to do things that are destructive to the soul, such as suicide. Many extremely suicidal people report hearing voices telling them to kill themselves. These voices belong to the dark entities from this realm.
God is all loving, and there is always a sense of unconditional compassion and forgiveness emanating from the light for everyone- including the dark entities. The divine light is made of love, and beings who enter into this light are at once immersed in a sea of love, the most profound and glorious love we as humans could ever possibly imagine. Its vastness is almost imperceptible to us. To comprehend it our minds have to strain, and they sometimes break in the effort.
There are so many questions to be answered which touch on the realm of the soul. There are answers, but they strain the boundaries of our human consciousness. Some things we are not meant to comprehend in this life.

Very beautiful thoughts.

Jim

[Left Behind]

Originally Posted by SpiralNature

that unknown is what terrifies me.

I want to know that when i die (if my partner has died before me) that i will be reunited with him upon entering the afterlife. It petrifies me not knowing if i would.to me love is forever, not bound upon just the earth experience

One of the most hopeful things to me about the afterlife is being reunited again with my late wife: for eternity, I hope.

Jim

"Now, with the near-death experiences, people ARE allegedly coming back to tell us. But we still don't know for sure, since many of the experiences they relate. and the things they saw. are so different."

As a Spiritualist, NDE accounts, though likely to be authentic, are less important than the abundance of evidence reported over many decades. Nonetheless those unaware of such accounts may find NDE reports compelling and that's a useful step forward in their awareness. It may also prompt investigation into the notion of survival.

I suggest it's reasonable to expect that experiences and sights will be different. The etheric dimension is not homogeneous any more than the physical one is - just ask a selection of people around the globe to describe what they see in their everyday lives and some truly remarkable differences are likely to be seen. That applies equally to the etheric planes.

[Fresco]

Originally Posted by Left Behind

One of the most hopeful things to me about the afterlife is being reunited again with my late wife: for eternity, I hope.

Jim

You will ................

[Left Behind]

Originally Posted by mac

"Now, with the near-death experiences, people ARE allegedly coming back to tell us. But we still don't know for sure, since many of the experiences they relate. and the things they saw. are so different."

As a Spiritualist, NDE accounts, though likely to be authentic, are less important than the abundance of evidence reported over many decades. Nonetheless those unaware of such accounts may find NDE reports compelling and that's a useful step forward in their awareness. It may also prompt investigation into the notion of survival.

I suggest it's reasonable to expect that experiences and sights will be different. The etheric dimension is not homogeneous any more than the physical one is - just ask a selection of people around the globe to describe what they see in their everyday lives and some truly remarkable differences are likely to be seen. That applies equally to the etheric planes.

Excellent points, Mac.

I'm admittedly new to the study of the afterlife, and reading about NDE's is my starting point. But I've also read Life In The World Unseen, and found it fascinating.

Now, please take this as a sincere observation and question, and not as an insult: but it seems to me that NDE's, at least theoretically, are potentially more credible than Spiritualist revelations. I'm not saying that NDE'rs can't be making it all up, or confusing dreams or hallucinations with an NDE. I personally don't give high credibility ratings to anonymous NDE's, self-reported to websites.

But there are many NDE's reported from people who's identity is verified, along with their medically-documented near or even clinical deaths: accounts from their attending physicians: etc.

I may well be wrong: but is there any objective filter we can apply to alleged Spiritualist revelations?

Jim

[Left Behind]

Originally Posted by Fresco

You will ................

Jim

[Fresco]

Originally Posted by Left Behind

But I've also read Life In The World Unseen, and found it fascinating

Thanks for the tip, I'm gonna read up on that tonight: http://new-birth.net/booklet/Life_in...rld_Unseen.pdf

Originally Posted by Left Behind

Excellent points, Mac.

I'm admittedly new to the study of the afterlife, and reading about NDE's is my starting point. But I've also read Life In The World Unseen, and found it fascinating.

Now, please take this as a sincere observation and question, and not as an insult: but it seems to me that NDE's, at least theoretically, are potentially more credible than Spiritualist revelations. I'm not saying that NDE'rs can't be making it all up, or confusing dreams or hallucinations with an NDE. I personally don't give high credibility ratings to anonymous NDE's, self-reported to websites.

But there are many NDE's reported from people who's identity is verified, along with their medically-documented near or even clinical deaths: accounts from their attending physicians: etc.

I may well be wrong: but is there any objective filter we can apply to alleged Spiritualist revelations?

Jim

NDEs are not just about the surroundings of a hospital, accounts of treatments etc. by individuals apparently close to death.

The temporary bi-location of body and one's spirit form during sleep is well known (often known as Astral Travelling) so the drifting of one's spirit to a place slightly removed from one's physical body during extreme medical stress is unremarkable when considered in that context.

The later reporting of observed or heard occurrences, though unusual and remarkable, simply confirms this well known phenomenon. It is valuable, however, in raising awareness that we do consist of 'body and soul' and that our spirit/soul survives corporeal death. If other phenomena are reported - eg seeing and hearing loved ones or even unrecognised individuals - they may move the process beyond simply hospital-type experiences. In that they are valuable in demonstrating something more....

You ask "...is there any objective filter we can apply to alleged Spiritualist revelations?" That's a hard one - what would constitute an 'objective filter'? Is the outcome of the temporary situation of near death (as often reported) an objective filter? If so, what has been demonstrated?

As a long-term Spiritualist I don't discount the value of NDEs but they simply scratch at the surface. A key, perhaps, which may open a door. But if the door only remains unlocked and not pushed ajar, unless the experiencer or reader of an account does not go further with their investigation of what's behind that door, then an invaluable opportunity has not been taken.....

Take the opportunity, push open the door, step inside and assess what you find for yourself. Choose your own filter(s), apply your own tests, give what you find your personal scrutiny. Those actions are open to any would-be seeker.

One does not have to stop at the unlocked door although for many there may not be the easy answers they'd like to find - but answers there are.

[Left Behind]

Originally Posted by mac

You ask "...is there any objective filter we can apply to alleged Spiritualist revelations?" That's a hard one - what would constitute an 'objective filter'? Is the outcome of the temporary situation of near death (as often reported) an objective filter? If so, what has been demonstrated?
are.

The outcome of the temporary situation of near-death: yes. That and such other factors as physicians relating that it was medically impossible for the person to have seen and heard the things he reported seeing and hearing during the surgery: or people in other rooms and floors of the hospital verifying that yes, that is what they were discussing or doing or how they were dressed when the NDE'r was under general anaesthesia in a separate room on the next floor...

Jim

[Fresco]

I had an OBE (not the same as NDE) when my appendix burst in hospital. That doesnt mean I died, it means I was slightly floating above my body from the medication I was on.

Very cool too, I loved it. It also opened my eyes that there's a lot more to life then we presently know