The Bible

[Baile]

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

Separate opinions are for separate threads. Very simple to understand. Why you bother asking? We will never know.

Okay, so how about this: What are your views on Biblical infallibility? That seems relevant. Is Christ still God, even when considered from a "secret and profound" view? Myself, I tend toward "radical traditionalist ideas," i.e. occult Christian understandings of Jesus as a human being only who experienced Christ Consciousness, but was neither Christ nor God. We could also talk about constructive and deconstructive truth, and the degree with which love plays into our beliefs and perspectives. And specifically into your perspectives given you're the one doing the Biblical critiquing here. It's difficult to know what you want to talk about when you keep blowing off replies, and tell us instead to just go read some quote from a book you posted.

[AscensionOm]

Originally Posted by Baile

Okay, so how about this: What are your views on Biblical infallibility? That seems relevant. Is Christ still God, even when considered from a "secret and profound" view? Myself, I tend toward "radical traditionalist ideas," i.e. occult Christian understandings of Jesus as a human being only, and neither Christ nor God. We could also talk about constructive and deconstructive truth, and the degree with which love plays into our beliefs and perspectives. And specifically into your perspectives given you're the one doing the Biblical critiquing here. It's difficult to know what you want to talk about when you keep blowing off replies, and tell us instead to just go read some quote from a book you posted.

Still not relevant. The topic is: Why the Bible(or another book) should be written in a commonsensical way. Not in ancient metaphors.
"Biblical infallibility"
"Is Christ still God"
"constructive and deconstructive truth"
"love plays into our beliefs and perspectives"

Because the topic has the word, "Bible" in it. Doesn't suggest that you expand on every aspect of the Bible.
If it's hard for you to stay on one topic, I recommend you visit another thread.
Or make your own thread with a new topic, and I will gladly visit.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

The topic is: Why the Bible(or another book) should be written in a commonsensical way. Not in ancient metaphors.

I recommend you visit another thread.

OKAY, so that's finally cleared up. And I'm visiting this thread because, like IAMSoul49 pointed out, we've been discussing this topic to some degree in the The West Needs Gnosis thread. But I have to back up here a bit because things still aren't entirely clear. Quoting from your first post now:

No considerate God would destroy the human mind by making it so rigid and unadaptable as to depend upon one book, the Bible, for all the answers.
It would be a temporary medicine,not a diet; a point of departure, not a perpetual point of reference.

So sure, we can talk about -- simplifying, is that the right word? -- the Bible. But why? For what purpose? Ease of reading? Yes, it comes back to the question of Bible infallibility. You apparently support reading the Bible, and think it's somehow important. But is there even a point to reading it, if the information in it isn't infallible, if it's just the same old-same old you can find anywhere else? If the Bible isn't infallible, why bother reading it then, let alone talk about needing to change it? Just go read some other spiritual book instead, they're all the same at that point. And does something have to be presented as easy-to-digest pablum in order to be appropriate and useful? The reason people read the Bible is because they believe the information in it to be the word of God, as written down by God, and they consider it to be singularly relevant. No other religion need apply. How many Christians will you find in a Buddhist monastery for example? It is the way it is because that's the way Christianity is, and the way the Bible is.

The fellow who started the The West Needs Gnosis thread takes the same thought-approach as you. And I'll tell you what I told him. Stop waiting around for religion to change. It won't. Ever. Change the way you personally approach religion and the Bible, change the way you teach and read the Bible to your kids. Pretty simple.

[AscensionOm]

Originally Posted by Baile

OKAY, so that's finally cleared up. And I'm visiting this thread because, like IAMSoul49 pointed out, we've been discussing this topic to some degree in the The West Needs Gnosis thread. But I have to back up here a bit because things still aren't entirely clear. Quoting from your first post now:

No considerate God would destroy the human mind by making it so rigid and unadaptable as to depend upon one book, the Bible, for all the answers.
It would be a temporary medicine,not a diet; a point of departure, not a perpetual point of reference.

So sure, we can talk about -- simplifying, is that the right word? -- the Bible. But why? For what purpose? Ease of reading? Yes, it comes back to the question of Bible infallibility. You apparently support reading the Bible, and think it's somehow important. But is there even a point to reading it, if the information in it is just the same old-same old you can find anywhere else? Why bother reading the Bible then; why talk about needing to change it? Just go read some other spiritual book that's easy to digest. Does something have to be presented as easy-to-digest pablum in order to be appropriate and useful? The reason people read the Bible is because they believe the information in it to be the word of God, as written down by God, and they consider it to be singularly relevant. No other religion need apply. How many Christians will you find in a Buddhist monastery for example? It is the way it is because that's the way Christianity is, and the way the Bible is.

The fellow who started the The West Needs Gnosis thread takes the same thought-approach as you. And I'll tell you what I told him. Stop waiting around for religion to change. It won't. Ever. Change the way you personally approach religion and the Bible, change the way you teach and read the Bible to your kids. Pretty simple.

"Ease of reading?"
Yes, including many other reasons I pointed out.

"Why bother reading the Bible then; why talk about needing to change it?"
You're considering the Bible to be of greater value and purpose than a Book. This is a clear religious bias, which you need to get over.
Why talk about changing it? For the same reasons already mentioned.

"Does something have to be presented as easy-to-digest pablum in order to be appropriate and useful?"

Yes.


"The reason people read the Bible is because they believe the information in it to be the word of God."

"no considerate God would destroy the human mind by making it so rigid
and unadaptable as to depend upon one book, the Bible, for all the
answers"

"as written down by God"

Human*

"How many Christians will you find in a Buddhist monastery for example?"

The same amount of Buddhist's you'll find in a Christian church. Your point: irrelevant with little meaning.

"Stop waiting around for religion to change. It won't. Ever."

It does everyday. Like I mentioned earlier, this is because of how poorly the Bible is written.

"change the way you teach and read the Bible to your kids. Pretty simple."

"Pretty simple". -Humorous ironicalness.
"change the way you teach and read". -That's exactly the problem. As mentioned earlier, where divisions arise.
"read the Bible to your kids". -Kids understand literal meanings, not ancient metaphors. They will grow up just as confused about the Bible, as the confused parent reading it.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

"Pretty simple". -Humorous ironicalness.
Your point: irrelevant with little meaning.

First you acted rude and snarky to everyone because you felt people weren't discussing the content of your post. And now you're acting rude and snarky when someone DOES discuss your post. Okay then.

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

"Why bother reading the Bible then; why talk about needing to change it?"
You're considering the Bible to be of greater value and purpose than a Book. This is a clear religious bias, which you need to get over.

Given the antagonist approach you take to conversation, I understand why you would bark at me about the need to get over my "clear religious bias." The thing is though I already told you I believed in "radical traditionalist ideas": that Jesus was a human being who experienced Christ Consciousness, and that he was not Christ or God. I don't consider the Bible to be more important than any other spiritual book. I don't consider it the word of God, nor do I interpret New Testament events in the same way the mainstream church does. Open dialogue and friendly communication has a lot to do with reading what the other says, and with not jumping to conclusions. You should try it.

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

Why talk about changing it? For the same reasons already mentioned.

There's only so many times you can say "Change the Bible." I get it. Great. And that will never happen. So now what? Which was my point and why I then attempted to evolve the discussion further by recommending a different approach: Change the way you read the Bible and read it to children. And I suppose another option since you seem concerned about this, is to re-write the Bible so your kids can read it for themselves. Same thing with the Gnosis thread: talking about the need for the Church to change their teachings (?!) is like talking about Monsanto needing to stop with the GMO stuff. Not happening. Period.

[AscensionOm]

No need to get upset. We're not children who take offense to words. Pull yourself together.

"I don't consider the Bible to be more important than any other spiritual book."

Yes you do. "Why bother reading the Bible then; why talk about needing to change it? Just go read some other spiritual book that's easy to digest."

"with not jumping to conclusions. You should try it."

I've jumped to a conclusion and stuck with it. You should try that.

"that will never happen"

Happens every day. Soon there won't be anything to change, as Christianity is a dying religion. The majority are those who were born and raised into it.

"Change the way you read the Bible and read it to children."

Which again, won't get you anywhere, if you yourself don't understand. Let alone your children. Either way, people have been changing the way they read it for hundreds of years, still haven't gotten anywhere.

"you seem concerned about this, is to re-write the Bible"

Nope. "The topic is: Why the Bible(or another book) should be written in a commonsensical way".

[Baile]

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

No need to get upset. We're not children who take offense to words. Pull yourself together.

You have such a way with insults, you're good at that.

Originally Posted by AscensionOm

Nope. "The topic is: Why the Bible(or another book) should be written in a commonsensical way".

Nope. (That felt good, I see why you do that.) Like any discussion, it's always about shared perspectives. You have yours, I have mine. Both are relevant. You think the Bible needs to be changed. I say no it doesn't, and that it's fine the way it is. That's what makes the Bible, the Bible, and Christianity, Christianity. And I pointed out your approach to this whole question is exactly the same as Lance & Rite's approach to Gnosis. He thinks Christianity has to change to suit his beliefs about Gnosis, and you think the Bible has to change to suit your beliefs about... etc. And you're both wrong. You're both looking for external answers to internal questions.

[IamSoul49]

Hello All

Well - at least this thread is mildly amusing

Honestly,some of the things being said though..lol..

"Nope. "The topic is: Why the Bible(or another book) should be written in a commonsensical way"....lol...it reminds me of the playground when I was a kid - you know..?..Its MY ball,and youre not playing - go make your own game..lol...

Ascension - if I may make a suggestion..?...It may help your cause here - if you remember always - people are FREE THINKERS - you cannot dictate what they thnk or say - cannot dictate then,how they respond to you either..FREE thinkers - especially HERE of all places...

Now - the actual answer I think - to your conundrum above - is that actually - the bible IS written in a "common sense" way - written SPECIFICALLY for a general population - and yet also - it contains a much MUCH deeper truth still - that becomes apparant to a few daring Souls who ACTUALLY attempt to attain what is offered - you know..?...those others Christ said "had ears to hear"..?...

It was INTENDED to be this two tier (at least) teaching - as in fact,He told us already quite plainly,He reveals MYSTERY and secrets only to those who are READY TO RECEIVE such mystery....and as this is an ongoing Self discovery process - then obviously,at first,the initiate is going to go back time and time again to his source,until he finds his own satisfaction,as that new spirit awakens within,so he sees new truth thus revealed...

This process - is of course - the Holy Ghost - as discussed in great depth already on that other "Gnosis" thread we mention...Christ teaching He said,is delivered in this two aspect manner on purpose by Him,as He knew all people vary in intelligence,understanding and wisdom - so He gave a base,bible version and spoke open parables for the masses - yet to those who understood,He reveals deep,universal metaphysical truths..His teaching - what little the bible contains - is written in this double manner,to allow both those WITH and those WITHOUT the Holy Ghost,to receive at least some benefit....

As said on the other thread - this Holy Ghost is really quite essential - and indeed,a major method to control the poulation,the church understood that,and so most of the bible problems in my opinion,stem from the deliberate withholding of the knowledge of the Holy Ghost - they have "dumbed down" His essential truths,to a form all could understand,but critically,a form they themselves could control and use to dominate....

I will remind us All at this point - neither Christ - nor Disciple - actually wrote the bible we have today

[AscensionOm]

"You have such a way with insults, you're good at that."

Thank you. It's appreciated.

"you think the Bible has to change to suit your beliefs about... etc."

Nope.

"And you're both wrong."

An interesting opinion.

[AscensionOm]

"....lol...it reminds me of the playground when I was a kid - you know..?..Its MY ball,and youre not playing - go make your own game..lol..."

That's how it is. Although I'm allowing all to play. Don't follow the rules and you will be excused or ignored.

"cannot dictate then,how they respond to you either..FREE thinkers"

Nope, but I give fair suggestions.

"the bible IS written in a 'common sense ' way"

The reason for denominations, diverse opinion and divisions, must be at the fault of another persons' or things' expense.

"contians a much MUCH deeper truth still"

Which no one in thousands of years has been able to decipher.

"few daring Soulds who ACTUALLY attemt to attain what is offered"

Many*. The Bible isn't an obscure adventure which people are afraid to venture in. It's a book. You are showered in bias and one-upmanship.

"secrets only to those who are READY TO RECEIVE such mystery"

Are you ready?

"an ongoing Self discovery process - then obviously,at first,the initiate is going to go back time and time again to his source"

As already mentioned before in a great metaphor: You don't re-read love letters from many years ago, to increase or recover love.

"Delivered in this two aspect manner on purpose"

Help a few; the rest perish in confusion. A considerate God?

"yet to those who understood,He reveals deep,universal metaphysical truths"

Which is no one.

"most of the bible problems in my opinion,stem from the deliberate withholding of the knowledge of the Holy Ghost"

Yes, due to a poorly written book.

"but critically,a form they themselves could control and use to dominate"

Who were, they?

"I will remind us All at this point - neither Christ - nor Disciple - actually wrote the bible we have today"

You must know something no one else on the planet does. Please elaborate.