Not while you are Human

[Jyotir]

Since all is One...

Any duality - whatever the form - is reconciled by higher or transcendent truth.

As such, "higher self" or "Highest Self" is not separate from, or in a battle with lower self - but in fact subsumes it as part and parcel of Itself, by nature.

Identification with, and as higher self surpasses and is inclusive of lower self, including the limited or ignorant perception of and by the objective material senses.

Identification with limited material senses is a conditional exclusion of Higher self and as such creates or sustains dualistic perception.



~ J

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

As such, "higher self" or "Highest Self" is not separate from, or in a battle with lower self - but in fact subsumes it as part and parcel of Itself, by nature.

Hi Jyotir. Yes. Absolutely. Very well put. BUT... getting to that higher-self place in one's understanding, requires seeing, and recognizing, and acknowledging the duality in life, in order to know how to transform it.

Arguing that duality isn't real, without having any understanding of higher-self awareness, karma, reincarnation, the eternal soul, the purpose of existence, etc., is rather like pounding nails into random boards and assuming that activity will eventually metamorphosis into a house. People want to skip having to study the spiritual blueprints, and just wing it instead.

[Miss Hepburn]

I thought that was an excellent orig post, William
Very clearly written.


'Something can not exist and not exist at the same time.
If you perceive something, then by definition it exists. You can not perceive something that does not exist." - William

BUT! lol...that 'something' that exists and is perceived by my receptors...
eyes, brain, nerves...still is not what it is!
I'm laughing...this is fun stuff.
It's just is a bunch of atoms looking like 'something'.
Separate those atoms farther apart...then where is it?

I still see 'things' as real as Brad Pitt on a movie screen...where the
screen is 'appearing' temporarily as a 'screen'....but really isn't.
Laughing more now.
Like the steak in The Matrix, for example.

Can anyone say Hologram?
Great topic!

"subsumes'? Jyotir :)

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Any duality - whatever the form - is reconciled by higher or transcendent truth.

As such, "higher self" or "Highest Self" is not separate from, or in a battle with lower self - but in fact subsumes it as part and parcel of Itself, by nature.

Identification with, and as higher self surpasses and is inclusive of lower self, including the limited or ignorant perception of and by the objective material senses.

Identification with limited material senses is a conditional exclusion of Higher self and as such creates or sustains dualistic perception.
~ J

Ahh...I love these concise nuggets of truth, though I equally enjoy the detailed ones too

Baile...also agreed...folks need to find their way back home, and it helps to talk about it and discuss.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

"subsumes'? Jyotir :)

Hahaha....
Oh yes...subsumes indeed
and thank God for that...give love and forgiveness a chance, right?

Peace & blessings all
7L

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

i don't enjoy arguments either; not the kind that become bickering over
whose point was made better. there is another kind of 'argument' which
is used to provide evidence for a conclusion -- those can be entertaining.

my explanation for how night and day are "opposites" would use the idea
that they are complementary and not in opposition. just as a sphere would
be incomplete without each of it's hemispheres, or applause would be
impossible without either of the hands participating, so are night and day
conjoined 'opposites' of a single whole.

Yep sounds more plausible than the simple binary of opposition used in certain ways to describe events and things. For me, there is little comfort in suggesting that the earth spinning on its axis and moving in rotation around the sun is a 'binary' or 'polar' movement ? but the concept of binary oppositions plays a big part in our in terms of creation ie. computers and conduction of energy ? I'm no scientist but i kind get the polarisation thing.
The idea that a perceived fluid movement however is made up of tiny binaries seems to ring a bell ? Although ive never investigated that one.
And also the Zen Koan springs to mind. What is the sound of one hand clapping ?

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

[indent][color="Navy"]Since all is One...
....
As such, "higher self" or "Highest Self" is not separate from, or in a battle with lower self - but in fact subsumes it as part and parcel of Itself, by nature.

If 'all is one' how could there be a higher and a lower self subsumed by the higher?

Obviously it is the lower self who cares for the higher self because the higher self could not even go shopping since for it 'all is one'

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

i don't enjoy arguments either; not the kind that become bickering over
whose point was made better. there is another kind of 'argument' which
is used to provide evidence for a conclusion -- those can be entertaining.

my explanation for how night and day are "opposites" would use the idea
that they are complementary and not in opposition. just as a sphere would
be incomplete without each of it's hemispheres, or applause would be
impossible without either of the hands participating, so are night and day
conjoined 'opposites' of a single whole.

Sounds more plausible than a strict binary interpretation of opposites. The idea that the earth is spinning on her axis around an orbit of the sun, that this is somehow a binary phenomenon, in terms of night and day doesn't ring true at all. But of course the binary principle is at work in such things as computers and the conduction of energy. Polarisation in this sense I can understand at least in a general way. However I'm not totally adverse to the idea that a fluid motion is made up of many many binaries ? lol I've just refuted myself, prey call off the Galilean hordes who are crashing through the door even as i speak lol...yep so i think ive come across this concept of binaries appearing as a fluid motion in cinematogarphy ? forgive my ignorance and slow mind lol. Thanks for replying Horace, good points.

Sorry I've replied Twice to that post HORACE unbeknowns to me. A Binary slip up. when i looked earlier today the first reply wasn't there ? So apologies for that sir.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Baile

...
Arguing that duality isn't real, without having any understanding of higher-self awareness, karma, reincarnation, the eternal soul, the purpose of existence, etc., is rather like pounding nails into random boards and assuming that activity will eventually metamorphosis into a house. People want to skip having to study the spiritual blueprints, and just wing it instead.

Duality innately conditions human experience which is why many human individuals hold it to be true and real but if rationally investigated duality is neither true nor real.
In contrast to duality phenomena like 'higher-self awareness, karma, reincarnation, the eternal soul, the purpose of existence, etc.' altogether do not innately condition human experience because they are arbitrarily constructed views acquired depending on philosophies and/or religions.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Baile

Darn Joe, I was just getting around to commenting on your post. Your point was well-taken. I would add people try way too hard to distance themselves from innocuous, simple-to-understand human words and concepts like duality, reality, and truth. But that's the nature of intellectual analysing, which is pretty much the nature of the dehumanizing internet as well. Now if we were together in a salon, we could take a couple of sips or puffs, sit back, and let our thoughts drift and formulate into a kind of collective human wisdom-cohesive. Alas though, 'tis not the reality.

Hey Baile, Sorry about that got a bit panicked with that post lol. Your right about the terms and language and analyzing, it can be all very misleading at times. I'll have to buy you a pint of Guinness and we'd all be sure to come up some good stuff. Actually that reminds me, we were drinking in this pub one time in Dublin, and i went to the jacks for a leak (marvelous english)lol. meaning we went to the john ...anyway lol. ..and this guy standing at a urinal says out real loud in a very philosophical voice, 'Time is the duration of things that change' lol...everybody in the jacks was like what !!!??? for a split second and then everybody nodded hey true story ! you just remidned me lol. Ok thanks for the comments. enjoyed reading them.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

...Your right about the terms and language and analyzing, it can be all very misleading at times.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I'll have to buy you a pint of Guinness and we'd all be sure to come up some good stuff. Actually that reminds me, we were drinking in this pub one time in Dublin, ...

Guinness can be very misleading at times.