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  #51  
Old 22-07-2017, 12:44 PM
Gem Gem is online now
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Then there's a social component and a life circumstance issue, and in my case, the leaving of a drug was the leaving of a social circle. I haven't kept a single contact from the old crew, and I moved to a new town - and circumstances also come into play, and there are life circumstances where one needs a little 'altered consciousness' to get them through the night... so... when I consider the elements of life history, emotional condition, social environment and the difficulty of circumstances one might endure, I find something complex and multifaceted pertains to intoxicant addiction.
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  #52  
Old 22-07-2017, 01:44 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Book1 Why 12?

I believe 12 steps{ integers } define a sine-wave. \/\/ i.e. two top peaks and two bottom{ trough } peaks when 0{ place/position holder } and 12 act as the same position of connection.

0.............6...............12........
..1........5....7.........11...........
....2....4.........8...10...............
.......3..............9....................

Then if inside-out the sine-wave from above we get inside sine-wave, between outer surface top and inner surface bottom.
.1.........5....7.........11........

0............6................12.....
.....3...............9................

...2...4..........8...10.............

Prime steps{ numbers } are in bold.

1, 5, 7, 11
...outer surface set

0, 3, 6, 9, 12 inside self-stablizing triangular set ergo a sine-wave in of itself.

2, 4, 8, 10...inner surface set

----------------------------------

12 = 2*6 and 3*4

4-fold{ symmetry } cubo{6}-octa{8}hedron has 12 vertexes

5-fold{ symmetry } icosa{20}hedron has same 12 vertexes

Tetra{4}hedron has 12 surface 60 degree angles via 4 triangles /\

Rhombic dodeca{12}hedron has 12 diamond-shaped surface openings/polygons.

The rhombic dodecahedron may be the most common crystal shape found on Earth.

12 = 5{ phi } + 5{ phi } + 2{ polar charge }

5-fold symmetry is intimately associated with phi{ 1.618 }/Golden Mean and Fibonacci{ 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 34, 55,
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  #53  
Old 15-08-2017, 05:33 AM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Lots of people have a problem with the concept of powerlessness ? In step 1 it says 'We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, our lives had become unmanageable.' It seems counter intuitive to admit powerlessness over anything as our world for the most part encourages and equates gaining power over anything as a sign of progress. Is power the same as mastery, maybe these two concepts are intertwined ? But it chokes most addicts or alkies that they have become so stupid as to have lost control over their own lives in terms of substance abuse ? It's simply stunning as well to see someone who has metaphorically and in reality holes in the seat of their pants say, no i'm not powerless over anything and yet the world can throw up scenarios like a Tsunami which washes away thousands of lives of people sunbathing on a beach at Christmas. What power was involved in that tragic act ? Why is it so difficult for an addict to admit powerlessness over a substance or process, if they are processed addicted as in gambling etc ?
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  #54  
Old 15-08-2017, 02:40 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Question Why 12?

[quote=r6r6r]
0.............6...............12........
..1........5....7.........11...........
....2....4.........8...10...............
.......3..............9....................

That is actually 13 steps since I began with 0.

However, teh first 12 prime numbers are;
2.3-5-7....11-13....17-19...23....29-31....37

3 * 12 = 36 so we have the one extra prime number. 37.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Humans, if not other animals have 12 cranial nerves. Not sure if that is a bilateral set, or not.

r6

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  #55  
Old 15-08-2017, 02:52 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
Lots of people have a problem with the concept of powerlessness ? In step 1 it says 'We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, our lives had become unmanageable.' It seems counter intuitive to admit powerlessness over anything as our world for the most part encourages and equates gaining power over anything as a sign of progress. Is power the same as mastery, maybe these two concepts are intertwined ? But it chokes most addicts or alkies that they have become so stupid as to have lost control over their own lives in terms of substance abuse ? It's simply stunning as well to see someone who has metaphorically and in reality holes in the seat of their pants say, no i'm not powerless over anything and yet the world can throw up scenarios like a Tsunami which washes away thousands of lives of people sunbathing on a beach at Christmas. What power was involved in that tragic act ? Why is it so difficult for an addict to admit powerlessness over a substance or process, if they are processed addicted as in gambling etc ?

It's called pride, in the unhealthy sense of stubbornness and arrogance.
From a place of stubborn narcissism, or arrogance, we deceive ourselves into denying the truth of our fallibility and our mortality, of our obvious weaknesses and vulnerabilities. We deceive ourselves into thinking that others do not matter equally to ourselves, but that is simply a convenient lie.

From a place of humility, however, the truth of our weaknesses and vulnerabilities seems obvious, and moreover it seems a manageable truth, one we can accept.
Because we realise we neither are nor need to be infallible or perfect. We simply need to be authentic, to be present, and to take ownership of our intent, thought, word, and deed. This means making amends and it means taking conscious decisions going forward. Whilst also recognizing that others matter equally to ourselves.

We may not all have a recognised addiction.
But because these are universal steps on the spiritual journey, I have said more than once that IMO most of the 12-step process of growth, ownership, and right action/right living applies to most folks in most times and places.

Peace & blessings all
7L
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  #56  
Old 16-09-2017, 12:35 PM
Joe Mc Joe Mc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
It's called pride, in the unhealthy sense of stubbornness and arrogance.
From a place of stubborn narcissism, or arrogance, we deceive ourselves into denying the truth of our fallibility and our mortality, of our obvious weaknesses and vulnerabilities. We deceive ourselves into thinking that others do not matter equally to ourselves, but that is simply a convenient lie.

From a place of humility, however, the truth of our weaknesses and vulnerabilities seems obvious, and moreover it seems a manageable truth, one we can accept.
Because we realise we neither are nor need to be infallible or perfect. We simply need to be authentic, to be present, and to take ownership of our intent, thought, word, and deed. This means making amends and it means taking conscious decisions going forward. Whilst also recognizing that others matter equally to ourselves.

We may not all have a recognised addiction.
But because these are universal steps on the spiritual journey, I have said more than once that IMO most of the 12-step process of growth, ownership, and right action/right living applies to most folks in most times and places.

Peace & blessings all
7L

Thanks Luminary, very thoughtful and deep reply, sorry I'm so late in thanking you. All the best Joe.
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