TALKING TO THE DEAD: PERMITTED BY GOD OR GRAVE SIN?

[Triner]

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Some of His glory was inside of the Ark of the Covenant. Someone touched it and died. When God's glory came down on the mountain where moses was to give him the 10 commandments, God gave specific instructions that while His glory was on the mountain that nobody should touch the mountain, not even an animal, or they would die.

That's just the usual fear, fear, fear, fear, fear stuff used to control people. God loves us infinitely, but he'll kill us if we touch a mountain he's on? Again, that's making places where God is not. And that's making God look petulant and petty.

God is all loving. God is everywhere. God is Love. God is Light. Anything that states otherwise is wrong.

Though the Ark thing is was pretty cool looking in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Bluegreen; that was an excellent quote. I appreciate your sharing it with us. (Applaudes loudly)

Triner makes another awesome point...

LISA, I like you, I really do. We have made peace on the forum when once we were slugging it out...lol .. But I would think you would have to admit; the points being made here are quite towering and make more than good sense.

I respect everyone's belief system, but I do get a little knot in my stomach when people say they posses the only truth about God. There are 3 major religions that claim this and all three can be shown to have huge holes in their theology. They all claim the all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present and Holy God... Yet all three have him being the creator of the evil and sin he condemns. HE MADE THEM.. there is no way to get around that fact. And if he made them, then God is a liar for having written in the Bible that there is no darkness in him.. Because there was darkness in him to conceive of and create a being like Satan. There are so many million mile wide gaps in that theology that it is unreal. How can it be so? How can we justify that? How can God justify that? It cannot be done no matter how someone slices it. It will never make sense. And it will never equal a loving and holy God.... It cannot. This would make God the very first sinner... for in the words of Jesus, to think about the sinful act in your mind is like commiting the actual deed. Therefore God sinned by thinking of all this evil and then creating it. It also makes God irresponsible; because he dreamed up all of the sin and evil... then created Satan to carry it all out and says, "hey, I didn't do that. I'm all goodness, love and light. I'm holy and cannot even look at sin." That kind of God is a bone head... Sorry, no taker here.

God broke his own Biblical rules and then judges everyone else for it??????? You have to think about this, it doesn't make good sense or a good God at all. It would be a terrible injustice to the whole of creation.... even to Satan himself. For he was merely made the machine that the maker designed him to be; and then he loses heaven for it and condemned to burn in hell forever..... That's called a set up. I cannot picture God being that way.

As far as Paul goes... if you just type in a search engine, Saint Paul a hereitic... you should get more than a few links on the subject.

Peace

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

So what do you think about what the Bible has to say on the subject?

It is another culture-specific belief. They could have come up with such ideas as a means to distance themselves from 'evil heathens' and other ilk.

Don't Christians ''commune'' with Jesus? He is a dead one too...

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

REALLY????? God creates the evil and the sin by making Satan and then sits back and says he will not tolerate anyone who sins???? And says he is too holy to even be in the presence of sin????? Again I say, REALLY???? You don't see a major contradiction and problem in all this? And please don't give me the old lame excuse that God's ways are higher than our ways and we can't possibly know the reason for it all right now........ That does not cut it. If God cannot tolerate sin and evil,, and he judges it... should not someone judge him for creating it in the first place? This rendition of God cannot possibly be accurate.

Actually if you look at the bible God didn't create Satan in the sense that he created someone to be evil. God created Lucifer the highest of Archangels.. It was Lucifer that decided to turn away from God. He was given the freewill to do so. Evil was created in that freewill was created. So evil was a result of things not the original intention.. Again, perhaps evil was what was intended to happen.

Originally Posted by Triner

That's just the usual fear, fear, fear, fear, fear stuff used to control people. God loves us infinitely, but he'll kill us if we touch a mountain he's on? Again, that's making places where God is not. And that's making God look petulant and petty.

God is all loving. God is everywhere. God is Love. God is Light. Anything that states otherwise is wrong.

Though the Ark thing is was pretty cool looking in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Would you say it's fear if I told you not to drink rat poison or you will die? I call that telling you the truth based on the consequences of drinking poison.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

Bluegreen; that was an excellent quote. I appreciate your sharing it with us. (Applaudes loudly)

Triner makes another awesome point...

Lisa, I like you, I really do. We have made peace on the forum when once we were slugging it out...lol .. But I would think you would have to admit; the points being made here are quite towering and make more than good sense.

I respect everyone's belief system, but I do get a little knot in my stomach when people say they posses the only truth about God. There are 3 major religions that claim this and all three can be shown to have huge holes in their theology. They all claim the all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present and Holy God... Yet all three have him being the creator of the evil and sin he condemns. HE MADE THEM.. there is no way to get around that fact. And if he made them, then God is a liar for having written in the Bible that there is no darkness in him.. Because there was darkness in him to conceive of and create a being like Satan. There are so many million mile wide gaps in that theology that it is unreal. How can it be so? How can we justify that? How can God justify that? It cannot be done no matter how someone slices it. It will never make sense. And it will never equal a loving and holy God.... It cannot. This would make God the very first sinner... for in the words of Jesus, to think about the sinful act in your mind is like commiting the actual deed. Therefore God sinned by thinking of all this evil and then creating it. It also makes God irresponsible; because he dreamed up all of the sin and evil... then created Satan to carry it all out and says, "hey, I didn't do that. I'm all goodness, love and light. I'm holy and cannot even look at sin." That kind of God is a bone head. Who would follow such a God that pawns everything off on another being that he in fact created and thought of........ Sorry, no taker here.

As far as Paul goes... if you just type in a search engine, Saint Paul a hereitic... you should get more than a few links on the subject.

Peace

Stick with the words of Jesus and you can't go wrong. That's what I do.

Originally Posted by Triner

Then your particular flavor is God is not infinite. He is not omnipresent. If God can be removed from somewhere by sin, then he is limited. And that is simply wrong.

You've resolved some of the contradictions in the Bible by decreasing God instead of allowing the Bible to be wrong. Your Book is more powerful to you than God. I think that's just silly.

It's not "my flavor" of God, it's who God really is. It's the truth.

[Triner]

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

It's not "my flavor" of God, it's who God really is. It's the truth.

It's your truth. And I hope if pleases you. I think trying to inflict your limited God on others is wrong

But my truth is that God is all loving. God is everywhere. God is infinite. God is Love. God is All. It's quite simple, quite joyous, quite beautiful, and incredibly wonderful to experience. I don't live in fear of God because God loves me and everyone else no matter what. That's call unconditional love.

I see God in each and every person I meet. Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, Hindu, Spritualist, Shaman, and whatever other beliefs there may be. God is in each one of them just shining out.

Originally Posted by Triner

It's your truth. And I hope if pleases you. I think trying to inflict your limited God on others is wrong

But my truth is that God is all loving. God is everywhere. God is infinite. God is Love. God is All. It's quite simple, quite joyous, quite beautiful, and incredibly wonderful to experience. I don't live in fear of God because God loves me and everyone else no matter what. That's call unconditional love.

I see God in each and every person I meet. Christian, Muslim, Pagan, Jew, Atheist, Agnostic, Hindu, Spritualist, Shaman, and whatever other beliefs there may be. God is in each one of them just shining out.

Limited is a human word. God is not limited. But, God is righteous and Holy. God loves all people, but not all people love Him back. In fact, most don't love Him at all because they don't even care enough to get to know Him. They don't care enough to find out what He wants from us.

What does He want?

1. Love Him with your whole heart and mind.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Holy is what God "IS".

He is the definition of HOLY. His glory is HOLY. His power is HOLY. His presence is HOLY. His will is HOLY. Everything He does, and everything about Him, IS HOLY. Holy is all powerful.

You can't see God and live because He is HOLY. His glory would kill a human being, it's that powerful.

Sin can't be in the presence of His Glory. That is why you can't enter into heaven unless your sins are removed, because heaven is a HOLY place and sin can't remain there.

That is why, unless your sins are removed before you die, you will not enter into heaven. Sin and God are not compatible because God is without sin (HOLY) and His Kingdom (heaven) is also Holy.

I realize that many here won't understand or believe this because they don't understand the real God and they don't know who He is. But, this is the truth.

What you are telling me about holy is: "Holy is all powerful" and it carries no meaning for me. All you are telling me is that another name for God is Holy.

You cannot see God and live because All That Is is of a vibration so high that our human souls would not be able to stand it. We can grow spiritually and increase our vibrations. But it will take a long time before we have reached that level which allows us to reunite with All That Is.

You always focus on sin and what the Bible promises as punishment. It is not what God says.

You say love your neighbor as yourself. Then focus on that and leave off all the Biblical threats.

In my opinion, each time you think of sin and punishment and each time you manage to make people afraid, you are hurting yourself and those others.

Have you ever asked yourself whether you will be free of sin when you die?