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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #11  
Old 18-09-2011, 03:53 AM
VesicaPhoenix11
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Originally Posted by mickiel
Well I believe the Genesis account is not myth, but it certainly seems mythical; as does God. And I think the multiple translations of the bible, into three different languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, defintely has distorted certain parts of scripture, but God made sure that enough of it remained intact to deliver the important componants of Salvation.

I respect your belief - but the reason I use the word myth is because all cultures have creation stories and many of those cultures believe that their story is the one and only, the "truth". While I respect your right (and any one else's right) to define truth for themselves, I myself find that I learn so much by exploring these creation perspectives that I can not hold one as more true than the other. So I choose to use the word myth when referring to them. No offense meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
I do not consider what happened in Eden as " A fall." I believe it was more like " A push", God set up Adam and Eve and put them out. And I believe everything that happened in Eden, God prior planned it. It would have been impossible for the " Serpent, or satan, to enter into the garden without Gods prior permission. It didnot " Sneak past God." Secondly; the young couple was absolutely no match for satan, and God prior knew that. God didnot help them, he just let it happen. Why? Well God was creating " The need for Christ to come." What happened in Eden was a preordained reason to send Christ to earth. So the young adult couple were definitely set up to fail.

Agreed as to the terminology "the fall from Eden". My pet myth is that the Eden story is actually a metaphor for evolution of consciousness on one level. Certain Gnostic texts actually praise Lucifer as the "lightbringer", "the redeemer" - and by this they do not mean they are "Satan worshippers" but instead they also see the "fall" as being planned and Lucifer as assisting God in his plans. That by the seduction of Eve with the apple humans entered in to a new state of awareness. Then there is "Christ consciousness" which is the awareness that many are moving towards - which, yes, would not be available without first eating the apple.

I - still fall on the side of metaphor, as to the specifics of literal meaning I can not say.

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Originally Posted by mickiel
I don't think it has a location, its just there, in the whole body. The body just carries it around. Like pouring water in a glass, the water takes on the entire shape of the glass; I think so it is with Spirit.

I'm not too attached to the DNA explanation myself (though for the interest of accuracy DNA is present in the whole body) I actually just thought of it while I was responding to your post. Though I may explore it some more.

Interesting thoughts....be well!
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  #12  
Old 18-09-2011, 04:29 AM
psychoslice psychoslice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
Interesting quote.

The image of God is consciousness in humans, I do not believe animals are conscious beings. They have highly developed instinct, but they hold no signs of Consciousness. Conscious beings will eventually become civilized and develop these things;

Verbal language.

Agriculture.

Science.

Written language.

Religion.

Some type of government.

Mathmatics of some sort.

Reading skills.

Education.

And so on, which is why I do not view animals or primordal man as conscious beings.
I think animals are also Consciousness, even a rock is Consciousness, now self consciousness is totally different, this is when we are conscious that we are Consciousness, an animal doesn't have to do this because it is already that, it doesn't need to know that, it doesn't need to know that it is that, it doesn't need to go to some religious organization to find that it is that, you see ?, now you are conscious of what I have just shared, but again an animal doesn't need to know what I have just shared.
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  #13  
Old 18-09-2011, 05:26 AM
Scottmana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
When the bible talks about Gods image, I have often wondered just what it is. I used to think it meant our physical shape, ...
It really is an image. If you thought of a picture printed on a sheet of paper you would just about have it. You were given this "image" some time ago. I believe everyone you encounter has the exact same image.

It is an image of God. Ask people to produce enough pictures and paintings and look at them and go back and make another and so on and they will begin to reproduce this image sooner or latter.
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  #14  
Old 18-09-2011, 01:35 PM
mickiel mickiel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmana
It really is an image. If you thought of a picture printed on a sheet of paper you would just about have it. You were given this "image" some time ago. I believe everyone you encounter has the exact same image.

It is an image of God. Ask people to produce enough pictures and paintings and look at them and go back and make another and so on and they will begin to reproduce this image sooner or latter.


Well I disagree, I don't see the image of God having to do with a human bodys physical image, if that is what you are suggesting. It is the consciousness that is invested with eternity and will live forever, not the body. Whatever will exist in eternity, is the part of God. The Spirit is the thing of God, or Gods image.

In example, the birth of Jesus was on this wise, or this is wisdom; When the Word was reduced to being human, God didNOT use male spamodazoa to conceive Jesus, the only physical thing used in Jesus birth,,was Marys physical womb, Jesus was concieved purely by the Holy Spirit, which is why he never sinned. And also why although Jesus was human in a sense, he certainly was NOT like any human ever conceived. He was born with both the spirit in man and the Spirit of God.
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  #15  
Old 18-09-2011, 01:40 PM
mickiel mickiel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
I think animals are also Consciousness, even a rock is Consciousness, now self consciousness is totally different, this is when we are conscious that we are Consciousness, an animal doesn't have to do this because it is already that, it doesn't need to know that, it doesn't need to know that it is that, it doesn't need to go to some religious organization to find that it is that, you see ?, now you are conscious of what I have just shared, but again an animal doesn't need to know what I have just shared.


Well I certainly disagree with this, rocks are not conscious, that is absurd. Animals are alive, but they are not conscious beings. But at least you seem to understand that " Self consciuousness " is not in animals, and that they don't need to be.
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  #16  
Old 18-09-2011, 10:16 PM
psychoslice psychoslice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
Well I certainly disagree with this, rocks are not conscious, that is absurd. Animals are alive, but they are not conscious beings. But at least you seem to understand that " Self consciuousness " is not in animals, and that they don't need to be.
I think you don't understand what I mean by Consciousness, Consciousness is the Essence of all that there is, self consciousness is being conscious of your self and your surroundings, so a rock is also Consciousness, it is made up of all that you are, it just doesn't have the life force animating though it, it doesn't have the forces of adhesion, cohesion, attraction and repulsion as we do, and in the end all is one, nothing is separate.
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  #17  
Old 18-09-2011, 10:50 PM
mickiel mickiel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoslice
I think you don't understand what I mean by Consciousness, Consciousness is the Essence of all that there is, self consciousness is being conscious of your self and your surroundings, so a rock is also Consciousness, it is made up of all that you are, it just doesn't have the life force animating though it, it doesn't have the forces of adhesion, cohesion, attraction and repulsion as we do, and in the end all is one, nothing is separate.


I see. Well I disagree with your definition of consciousness. It is not the essence of all there is, Consciousness is individual inward awareness. You are trying to create your own definition of the term, by defining self consciousness in one manner, and consciousness in another, when the two shouldnot have seperation of terms. Consciousness is the governor of human behavior.

This suggestion that consciousness is the essence of all there is, goes beyond even being human, and I disagree with doing that to the term.
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  #18  
Old 19-09-2011, 01:43 AM
mickiel mickiel is offline
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One of the things that the image of God being consciousness opens up, is a possible unusual answer to primordal mans reason for existing. God blew the " Breath of Life into Adam", which gave him consciousness, because God has conscious life inside of him. This is " Protozoan", or God bringing out life from inside of him and placing it inside of another being he created. That being now has a part of God inside of them. An " Offspring of him."

Now, God can create life without bringing it from inside of himself, he can simply" will life into existence " through himself or Christ. I believe this is how animals were created, simply through the will of God, NOT from the breath of God, which produces consciousness. Animals are not conscious beings, they are not the children of God, and they are not inheritors of Salvation.

I believe it was simular with primordal man. God created them, for his specific reasonant, but didnot blow into them the " Conscious breath of life", but he outwardly gave them " A physical highly instinctual life", thus they are not inheritors of eternal life, nor did God judge them accordingly. Why he created them, is simply unknown. I personally think he was " Observing them", and took his time doing so. Like the first stage of a rocket falling off, in order to propel it further into preperation for the second stage, I believe the advent of " Cavemen", was the firststage of our creation.

Which , if true, further leads to more intresting ramifications.
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  #19  
Old 19-09-2011, 02:08 AM
psychoslice psychoslice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickiel
I see. Well I disagree with your definition of consciousness. It is not the essence of all there is, Consciousness is individual inward awareness. You are trying to create your own definition of the term, by defining self consciousness in one manner, and consciousness in another, when the two shouldnot have seperation of terms. Consciousness is the governor of human behavior.

This suggestion that consciousness is the essence of all there is, goes beyond even being human, and I disagree with doing that to the term.
Your consciousness is from Freudian, I am using the non-duality concept of Consciousness, we are both on a different wave length that's all.
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  #20  
Old 19-09-2011, 02:31 AM
mickiel mickiel is offline
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Originally Posted by psychoslice
Your consciousness is from Freudian, I am using the non-duality concept of Consciousness, we are both on a different wave length that's all.


Well yes, I certainly agree with you there. But you know, " Viva La Difference!" I just don't see the explination for human behavior as residing in physical chemistry. The orgin of learning and the orgin of Consciousness are entirely two different things. Consciousness didnot evolve by simple natural selection, I believe humanity alone, of all species, singularly holds consciousness. The enormous influence of ideas , principles, beliefs over lives and actions, are not derivable from rocks or animals. Humanity is not continuous with the idiot hierarchies of speechless apes or rocks.

The individual and emotional lives of intellectual humans, our culture and history, religion and science, is different than anything we know of in the universe, not at one with it.
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