Why don't bad people ascend?

[Ghost_Rider_1970]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

No offence to you personally Ghost, but this is where Spirituality falls down in its understanding, quite frankly.

We are multi-dimensional beings, or at least that's how one of the many stories of that ilk goes, yet we'd run away from those 'low vibrations' of being human and forget one level of our existence in the rush to label ourselves as Spiritual. Which is the very human thing to do. 'Bad people' are pigeon-holed but nobody shakes their hand and says "Thank you for the lesson, without you my Spiritual development would be stunted." Heck, it's possible that you're Spiritual because of those 'bad people' but that's by-the-by and nobody thinks about that.

What is meant by Universal experience? Is any Path any better than any other and didn't we - as Souls/Spirit - choose it just the same? If we're questioning whether or not 'bad guys' ascend and we're coming up with these answers, what does that say about us?

Hi Greenslade and no offence taken

The point I was trying to make is that there tends to be a view that those who do good things will reach ascension once they die and those that do bad things wont - so will need to live many lives until they find true enlightenment.

I simply believe in one life without any conscious afterlife or divine jugement so from my perspective this all becomes immaterial. Where the only way we know ourselves is to know all those around us - good, bad or indifferent. So when it comes to souls we are not a body that contains an individual soul but each of us is the very soul of the universe.

With me seeing the universe as organic we as the universe have our own life experiences before we return to the beautiful state of ‘nothingness’ from where we came. So once we die someone completely different is born having their own unique experiences anew. From this viewpoint, we as the universe are eternal - irrespective of the good or bad things we do. Ascension is therefore to live life under the floodlight of knowing we are the universe rather than the spotlight of seeing ourselves as a separte, isolated ego.

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Hi Greenslade and no offence taken

The point I was trying to make is that there tends to be a view that those who do good things will reach ascension once they die and those that do bad things wont - so will need to live many lives until they find true enlightenment.

I simply believe in one life without any conscious afterlife or divine jugement so from my perspective this all becomes immaterial. Where the only way we know ourselves is to know all those around us - good, bad or indifferent. So when it comes to souls we are not a body that contains an individual soul but each of us is the very soul of the universe.

With me seeing the universe as organic we as the universe have our own life experiences before we return to the beautiful state of ‘nothingness’ from where we came. So once we die someone completely different is born having their own unique experiences anew. From this viewpoint, we as the universe are eternal - irrespective of the good or bad things we do. Ascension is therefore to live life under the floodlight of knowing we are the universe rather than the spotlight of seeing ourselves as a separte, isolated ego.

There tends to be a view that those who go to church every Sunday will sit at God's right hand along with those who have high vibrations. Personally I think it's time we left all this behind but.... Perhaps only the ascended have Souls that go 'up there' after death.

But we came from Spirit which is the epitome of everything that is Spiritual... yadda yadda... so why would we come here to know we are the Universe, within Plato's Allegory of the Cave? Experiencing ourselves as an isolated ego has its lessons as much as reading books and watching YouTubes.

[dream jo]

offtenn wondr it thn i i no bad karma it wott thy dun is aron cornrer it cud be yrs but karma wil enveltyy get thm

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There tends to be a view that those who go to church every Sunday will sit at God's right hand along with those who have high vibrations. Personally I think it's time we left all this behind but.... Perhaps only the ascended have Souls that go 'up there' after death.

But we came from Spirit which is the epitome of everything that is Spiritual... yadda yadda... so why would we come here to know we are the Universe, within Plato's Allegory of the Cave? Experiencing ourselves as an isolated ego has its lessons as much as reading books and watching YouTubes.

The whole ascension story and enlightenment story, really has been created through the potential of human growth and awareness, so then we decide, we can attain certain ways of being in this body on this earth and also we determine through our own creations and others, what that means when we leave this earth. I wonder if, even as we may come to know creation beyond this world, how things appear to be beyond here and now, are like the awareness of this life, that, they too are a transient flow, where we meet ourselves for a time in the creation and perception we are at any given time within, reflecting.

As potential as humans, we can grow and change, develop and create different realities within the one reality. I think back to the spiritual intervention time, when I was in need and the awareness of spirit as it felt and came to be in and around me and it really it was "me" creating it to be as I needed at that time. The "story" thus far supported the story I needed to make it be, as I needed. (And it worked).

In looking at the sensation and feelings, mindset and view, understandings of certain creations that had been created and programmed in me did serve me at that time of my awareness and needs. It was an every changing view coming into being all the same. Without "me" now involved if I go back to that time, the "feeling and awareness" of 'spirit' was just a feeling and sensation of fluidness, like water. The story I attached to it, was my own at that time. What I needed.

NDE's and OBE's also open up the nature of reality as we are and perceive it to be at those intersecting points at any given time. So what has been changes through the understanding of itself aware through those experiences. Often all that falls away in time for the one to move into the "opening" as itself, created through its own personal experience. We become more 'aware' of ourselves and life around us and how to live.

In the awareness that we house within us, the whole creation, we really do become our own movie and reality which becomes, ourselves creating ourselves and our lives into being through the human capacity to create and share stories of what we are and what we experience, what it all means and what it serves in us. All this created through a whole stream of our own human potential that flows in as conditioned notions, ideas we make up through association and realities already created, our imagination, fantasies, visions, sensory awareness, stories, beliefs etc.

As we grow through ourselves reflecting all that we create as our story and connections, the deeper you move through yourself and open to become more clear, it seems the nature of those who we believe are bad and may not ascend are living as they only know for now in this moment. In the awareness of my own life and unfolding, I can see why the "Bad" is difficult to overcome in this world for many, it takes work, it takes courage, it takes learning and it takes direction and support to show another way.

As I live and learn now in this world, in this body as I am, I realize that we can spend so much time dedicated to what becomes of us beyond this world, that we often forget what we can become on this earth to support those who have a "deeper" ingrained conditioned pattern of suffering, "often termed as bad", is really where our focus can be more aware and supportive to those in need. What is in this world as it is, needs more support than worrying whether one goes to heaven or hell or who ascends and who doesn't. We created both, so it makes sense to me that if we know how to rise above suffering, pain and struggle, care and know that the deeper levels of pain and suffering and why they exist, it is only through deeper awareness of "others as they are" that we can truly support and overcome our own interconnectedness on earth as it is.

I have witnessed a few deaths, I had a sense of one whereby I felt their life force leave the body. It was very much alive and again it felt like a fluid flowing movement of air. Like a cool breath. The body of course, an empty shell no longer fuelled by this connection to itself. In that moment I suspect that the "merging" of itself into the life force as a whole, has already occurred. The memories and creations of that person as we knew and know them to be, is then opened and decided as we create it all to be. Sometimes I wonder when people share they sense their loved one coming back from spirit to visit them, whether the "feelings" the visionary response, or the minds ideas, do make the nature of spirit into something to fit them, as I did for me, until I let go and learned of more.

My own awareness of the spiritual nature of all life, is that we are all connected to this life force, it emanates through all life as a source that "gives life too". It reflects back to us what we can only understand open and aware of ourselves as. We create it to be something to fit our reality, and only as we are open and aware to do so. Yet in the "clarity" of the wholeness creation is and we can be, it just is. It is life, we are life and we create this life to be in everyway we are being.

Our human self has the capacity to learn and grow through itself aware, so in the understanding of others open and aware, not open and aware, we only have to look at this earth school and realize ascension is really about understanding deeper the nature of life here on earth and doing something about it ourselves if we care enough to bring that change. To open our own explorations and wisdom as ourselves in action in some way back into this world.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider_1970

Hi Greenslade and no offence taken

The point I was trying to make is that there tends to be a view that those who do good things will reach ascension once they die and those that do bad things wont - so will need to live many lives until they find true enlightenment.

I simply believe in one life without any conscious afterlife or divine jugement so from my perspective this all becomes immaterial. Where the only way we know ourselves is to know all those around us - good, bad or indifferent. So when it comes to souls we are not a body that contains an individual soul but each of us is the very soul of the universe.

With me seeing the universe as organic we as the universe have our own life experiences before we return to the beautiful state of ‘nothingness’ from where we came. So once we die someone completely different is born having their own unique experiences anew. From this viewpoint, we as the universe are eternal - irrespective of the good or bad things we do. Ascension is therefore to live life under the floodlight of knowing we are the universe rather than the spotlight of seeing ourselves as a separte, isolated ego.

Cool.

'Each of us Is the very soul of the universe'

[jenriggs]

According to the bible, the seeds that were from the Father and the Mother (our true creators) they were to be perfect and bear fruit, and when ready they will ascend when ready.

Satan then came along and sown his own seeds amongst the other seeds. and proclaimed leadership over those seeds as his own as he would be their god. The original seeds may get confused and think they are from Satan's seeds as well.

These seeds are humans. The seeds from Satan are the evil ones in our world. They don't have the spark of the Mother and the Father. Unless somehow they wake up and change their faith and stop worshipping Satan, either if they realize they are or not, they will not ascend because as Jesus said those seeds are from another plan, not part of the original plan.

People that do bad things to others, with no remorse, are in fact, evil. Our true creators are all about love, kindness, understandimg, etc. They never created us to be flawed in any way. We were perfect when "planted". People who are evil don't even care about those things, or even care about ascension in that matter. For those who do care, well, we are the original seeds. We can do bad things of course because of free will, but the difference is we feel remorse, and that is accepted in that case. Hope that makes sense.

That's the meaning behind the "seeds talk" Jesus spoke of.

[shivatar]

Originally Posted by traceyacey12

Why don't bad people ascend? What I mean by bad people are ones that do bad things unto people (seek to hurt etc). Couldn't these people be so bad that the universe deems it necessary for them to need Ascension and for them to go through the Ascension process? Thanks :)

Ascension is a process of the self. It is self-induced.

The mechanisms of ascension, the gates so to speak, function on group work. Seeing everything as a group effort, rather than a competition of singular individuals. So someone who is self-centered in a negative way will be blocked from ascending in the divine way, although they can have a dark ascension, which is basically an evolution of harmful behaviors. Someone who is willing to put their own self-identity and self-interests aside is able to ascend the divine way.

To answer your question, bad people can ascend but it's not the kind of ascension that many people want. It's like living in electrified toxic goo, very exciting and stimulating but also horribly damaging and painful.

divine ascension is like living in a gently warm fluid that smells like fresh forest air and flowers. it's peaceful, emotionally fulfilling, sensually pleasing, and wonderful to behold.

Also, a bad person can experience a divine ascension. but in order to do that they must change their identity from bad to good. So it's a catch 22. as long as they identify as evil and seek to harm others, they cannot experience divine ascension, and if they do ascend it will be a dark ascension. However they have the potential to change their identity to good and seek to help people, even if it means their own desctruction, and then if they have an ascension it can possibly be divine.

divine and dark ascension are like colors or sides of a spectrum. Between those two polarities there are millions, billions of colors/vibrations. Someone can experience a mostly divine ascension, a mixed ascension, a mostly dark ascension, a mundane ascension, etc.