Semantics

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I get the feeling from what you say Jim, that your reliance on the use of words in a particular format, therefore, observation, analysis, argumentation is part of your conditioning that you haven't come to terms with yet.

Hmmm.....

Do you sing ? Perhaps you need to walk into the middle of the street and start singing for awhile. This too involves the use of words too ?

LOL, I do sing but I see no value in singing in the middle of a street and why do you often add the "?" character to sentences that are not questions?

I think you have been conditioned somewhere in your past to over rely on language to get to the bottom of things ?

LOL, is that a question or a statement? Your writing style is very confusing to me. I honestly do not "over rely" on anything except maybe my ears when playing music. But I can see an over reliance on words in your communication here. I'd recommend that you stop relying on all these unnecessary, complicated words and phrases and just say what you mean as honestly and simply as possible. Oh, and it might help to drop your tendency to accuse others of such and such and just speak for and about your self. The over use of the word "you" is often quite offensive and accusatory! Use 'I' more and 'you' less!

For example, someone can be brought up in legalistic environment, both parents are lawyers etc. and this could impinge on how they relate to language in a good or bad way.

Please offer some examples of good and bad ways to relate to language.

But there is really a pride there isn't there.

LOL, if you say so!

As for people dropping personal pronouns as if it brought them closer to something we term non duality. Well as has been stated already, it's just downright silly that one.

I agree.

So yes your post there got me thinking really that you have faith in language to solve arguments which I myself don't.

Sorry but you've lost me here. Please quote the post that you are referring to. How do you solve arguments?

Joe, I suppose that you're trying to tell me something important about language, pride and "coming to terms" with whatever but I honestly do not get whatever it is/was that you attempted to say there. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and come back here with a more direct and simple version of what you are trying to say to me here. I recommend that you drop all those mysterious "?" characters, leave out references to Mark Twain, use 'I' more and 'you' less and just stick to what you know and/or have personally experienced to say whatever it is that you've attempted to say here.
So far, all I got from your comment is that you "feel" there is something WRONG with me and/or my communications so why not just come right out and say what you think, feel and believe about things? Just be HONEST!

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Baile

The religious person generally speaks of we: We are all sinners as the classic example.

This is about Toxic Shame. A Shame-based person (usually SHAMED in early childhood by other Shame-based folks such as parents) has to keep the focus off of their SHAMEFUL and unacceptable self so they are forced to focus on and judge others as "sinners" etc. Being Shame-based and ashamed of them selves, the only way to feel a little better is to find fault with others and thereby see them selves as not so bad after all. It's basic psychology: I feel bad but YOU are worse than me! Looking DOWN seems to "lift up" the victims of Toxic Shame - like Religious people.... "My god's better than your god!"

Religion is primarily an outward belief-path; projecting one's beliefs AND TOXIC SHAME onto the world.

The spiritual person, who might be free of TOXIC SHAME, speaks of I and me: My personal self-development, my self-realization path.
Anyone who is free of Toxic Shame can and will easily speak of and for them selves because they are NOT ashamed of them self and carry no pain about who/what they are whereas a Shame-based person is in constant pain, fear and self contempt BUT covers their pain up with all kinds of strategies such as blaming, accusing, criticizing, judging, DRINKING, using DRUGS, sex, food, meditation, working too much, too much of anything that MIGHT help the victim of Shame to feel a little better. Almost every affliction or problem in the world comes from the sickness of TOXIC SHAME which is generally seen as perfectly normal.
In the story of Adam & Eve, they left the Garden of Eden IN SHAME! They SHAMEFULLY covered their naked bodies! Observe that a little child is NOT ASHAMED until after those around this innocent child begin the process of MAKING a child feel ASHAMED of their body and finally their very being or self.
Children are taken from shameless innocence to personal SHAME by Shame-based others at a very early age! Very few ever escape the damages of Toxic Shame in Western cultures.
Google Toxic Shame and learn all about it. Many people in western cultures suffer with Toxic Shame!

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Hmmm.....

LOL, I do sing but I see no value in singing in the middle of a street and why do you often add the "?" character to sentences that are not questions?


LOL, is that a question or a statement? Your writing style is very confusing to me. I honestly do not "over rely" on anything except maybe my ears when playing music. But I can see an over reliance on words in your communication here. I'd recommend that you stop relying on all these unnecessary, complicated words and phrases and just say what you mean as honestly and simply as possible. Oh, and it might help to drop your tendency to accuse others of such and such and just speak for and about your self. The over use of the word "you" is often quite offensive and accusatory! Use 'I' more and 'you' less!

Please offer some examples of good and bad ways to relate to language.


LOL, if you say so!


I agree.


Sorry but you've lost me here. Please quote the post that you are referring to. How do you solve arguments?

Joe, I suppose that you're trying to tell me something important about language, pride and "coming to terms" with whatever but I honestly do not get whatever it is/was that you attempted to say there. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and come back here with a more direct and simple version of what you are trying to say to me here. I recommend that you drop all those mysterious "?" characters, leave out references to Mark Twain, use 'I' more and 'you' less and just stick to what you know and/or have personally experienced to say whatever it is that you've attempted to say here.
So far, all I got from your comment is that you "feel" there is something WRONG with me and/or my communications so why not just come right out and say what you think, feel and believe about things? Just be HONEST!

Perhaps I misquoted you Jim, as i was replying to a post you put up regarding being at a non duality meeting were people there were not using personal pronouns. This, according to your post, irritated you it seems. Why ? Don't you know language is a vehicle and people mis-use it all of the time ? As for grammatical mistakes, no big deal, what's a couple of mis-placed question marks ? It's bad manners to become an English Teacher all of a sudden when the question in relation to language is to do with non-duality and not English grammar, says alot about you Jim. The only time I've seen people questioning each others grammar or punctuation is on youtube comments by trolls. So quite a poor show really Jim. Language is also highly allusive and metaphorical, some people call that type of language poetry or figurative language, and some people also claim that poetic language is quite closely linked to music and song, I thought you might pick up on that point Jim as you say you are involved in creating music. What does hmmmmm mean i've never seen much written about it ..is it a particle of written language or something ? lol

[jimrich]

Joe, I have gone to the trouble of reconstructing the entire exchange that this post by you is referring to since this forum does not include all of the material that was quoted or discussed for the sake of clarity and accuracy..........
Originally Posted by Joe Mc
I get the feeling from what you say Jim, that your reliance on the use of words in a particular format, therefore, observation, analysis, argumentation is part of your conditioning that you haven't come to terms with yet.

Jim: Hmmm.....

Joe Mc Do you sing ? Perhaps you need to walk into the middle of the street and start singing for awhile. This too involves the use of words too ?

Jim: LOL, I do sing but I see no value in singing in the middle of a street and why do you often add the "?" character to sentences that are not questions?

Joe Mc I think you have been conditioned somewhere in your past to over rely on language to get to the bottom of things ?

Jim: LOL, is that a question or a statement? Your writing style is very confusing to me. I honestly do not "over rely" on anything except maybe my ears when playing music. But I can see an over reliance on words in your communication here. I'd recommend that you stop relying on all these unnecessary, complicated words and phrases and just say what you mean as honestly and simply as possible. Oh, and it might help to drop your tendency to accuse others of such and such and just speak for and about your self. The over use of the word "you" is often quite offensive and accusatory! Use 'I' more and 'you' less!

Joe Mc For example, someone can be brought up in legalistic environment, both parents are lawyers etc. and this could impinge on how they relate to language in a good or bad way.

Jim: Please offer some examples of good and bad ways to relate to language.

Joe Mc But there is really a pride there isn't there.

Jim: LOL, if you say so!

Joe Mc As for people dropping personal pronouns as if it brought them closer to something we term non duality. Well as has been stated already, it's just downright silly that one.

Jim: I agree.

Joe Mc So yes your post there got me thinking really that you have faith in language to solve arguments which I myself don't.

Jim: Sorry but you've lost me here. Please quote the post that you are referring to. How do you solve arguments?

Joe, I suppose that you're trying to tell me something important about language, pride and "coming to terms" with whatever but I honestly do not get whatever it is/was that you attempted to say there. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and come back here with a more direct and simple version of what you are trying to say to me here. I recommend that you drop all those mysterious "?" characters, leave out references to Mark Twain, use 'I' more and 'you' less and just stick to what you know and/or have personally experienced to say whatever it is that you've attempted to say here.
So far, all I got from your comment is that you "feel" there is something WRONG with me and/or my communications so why not just come right out and say what you think, feel and believe about things? Just be HONEST!

And now, on to your latest communication to me..............

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Perhaps I misquoted you Jim, as i was replying to a post you put up regarding being at a non duality meeting were people there were not using personal pronouns.

I have no idea what you are referring to so please quote my words or comments from back there.

This, according to your post, irritated you it seems. Why ?

Why not?

Don't you know language is a vehicle and people mis-use it all of the time ?

Really!

As for grammatical mistakes, no big deal, what's a couple of mis-placed question marks ?

No big deal!

It's bad manners to become an English Teacher all of a sudden when the question in relation to language is to do with non-duality and not English grammar, says alot about you Jim.

It's bad manners to suddenly demonstrate disrespect and contempt by refusing to answer a POLITE question about your use of the "?" in "strange" places and making insulting comments about "becoming an English Teacher". I have not tried to teach you or anyone anything about English Grammar! . I smell CONTEMPT coming from you here and I don't like it! Your obviously hostile and disrespectful attitude says a lot about you, Joe.

The only time I've seen people questioning each others grammar or punctuation is on youtube comments by trolls. So quite a poor show really Jim.

I am not a Troll and have communicated with you in a POLITE and respectful manner so, being rude, offensive and accusitory with me is not going to help us have a reasonable nor friendly exchange! Quite a poor show, Joe!

Language is also highly allusive and metaphorical, some people call that type of language poetry or figurative language, and some people also claim that poetic language is quite closely linked to music and song, I thought you might pick up on that point Jim as you say you are involved in creating music.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Do you sing ? Perhaps you need to walk into the middle of the street and start singing for awhile. This too involves the use of words too ?

Hmmm, pretty mysterious comment here!
LOL, I might have "picked up" on that "point" had you made it clearer!

What does hmmmmm mean i've never seen much written about it ..is it a particle of written language or something ? lol

The Hmmmm.....is just my way to let someone know that I read their comment and did not simply ignore it. If this was a spoken discussion, I'd be saying Hmmm quite often along with a head nod or raised eye-brows, lip movements,etc. I would do thins in a RESPECTFUL manner!
Owing to your sour and offensive attitudes and comments above, which I've made BOLD, I am done with this discussion, good bye, Joe.

[jimrich]

Joe, in the interest of clarity and accuracy, I have gone to the trouble of reconstructing the entire exchange that your current post is referring to since this forum does not include all of the material that was quoted or discussed before.........

Originally Posted by Joe Mc
I get the feeling from what you say Jim, that your reliance on the use of words in a particular format, therefore, observation, analysis, argumentation is part of your conditioning that you haven't come to terms with yet.

Jim: Hmmm.....

Joe Mc Do you sing ? Perhaps you need to walk into the middle of the street and start singing for awhile. This too involves the use of words too ?

Jim: LOL, I do sing but I see no value in singing in the middle of a street and why do you often add the "?" character to sentences that are not questions?

Joe Mc I think you have been conditioned somewhere in your past to over rely on language to get to the bottom of things ?

Jim: LOL, is that a question or a statement? Your writing style is very confusing to me. I honestly do not "over rely" on anything except maybe my ears when playing music. But I can see an over reliance on words in your communication here. I'd recommend that you stop relying on all these unnecessary, complicated words and phrases and just say what you mean as honestly and simply as possible. Oh, and it might help to drop your tendency to accuse others of such and such and just speak for and about your self. The over use of the word "you" is often quite offensive and accusatory! Use 'I' more and 'you' less!

Joe Mc For example, someone can be brought up in legalistic environment, both parents are lawyers etc. and this could impinge on how they relate to language in a good or bad way.

Jim: Please offer some examples of good and bad ways to relate to language.

Joe Mc But there is really a pride there isn't there.

Jim: LOL, if you say so!

Joe Mc As for people dropping personal pronouns as if it brought them closer to something we term non duality. Well as has been stated already, it's just downright silly that one.

Jim: I agree.

Joe Mc So yes your post there got me thinking really that you have faith in language to solve arguments which I myself don't.

Jim: Sorry but you've lost me here. Please quote the post that you are referring to. How do you solve arguments?

Joe, I suppose that you're trying to tell me something important about language, pride and "coming to terms" with whatever but I honestly do not get whatever it is/was that you attempted to say there. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and come back here with a more direct and simple version of what you are trying to say to me here. I recommend that you drop all those mysterious "?" characters, leave out references to Mark Twain, use 'I' more and 'you' less and just stick to what you know and/or have personally experienced to say whatever it is that you've attempted to say here.
So far, all I got from your comment is that you "feel" there is something WRONG with me and/or my communications so why not just come right out and say what you think, feel and believe about things? Just be HONEST!

And now, on to our latest communication..............

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Perhaps I misquoted you Jim, as i was replying to a post you put up regarding being at a non duality meeting were people there were not using personal pronouns.

I have no idea what you are referring to so you should have quoted my comments here for a response.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

This, according to your post, irritated you it seems. Why ?

Why not?

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Don't you know language is a vehicle and people mis-use it all of the time ?

Really!

As for grammatical mistakes, no big deal, what's a couple of mis-placed question marks ?

No big deal!

It's bad manners to become an English Teacher all of a sudden when the question in relation to language is to do with non-duality and not English grammar, says alot about you Jim.

It's bad manners to suddenly demonstrate disrespect and contempt by refusing to answer a POLITE question about your use of the "?" in "strange" places and making insulting comments about "becoming an English Teacher". I have not tried to teach you or anyone anything about English Grammar! . I smell CONTEMPT coming from you here and I don't like it! Your obviously hostile and disrespectful attitude says a lot about you, Joe.

The only time I've seen people questioning each others grammar or punctuation is on youtube comments by trolls. So quite a poor show really Jim.

I am not a Troll and have communicated with you in a POLITE and respectful manner so, being rude, offensive and accusatory with me is not going to help us have a reasonable nor friendly exchange! Quite a poor show, Joe!

Language is also highly allusive and metaphorical, some people call that type of language poetry or figurative language, and some people also claim that poetic language is quite closely linked to music and song, I thought you might pick up on that point Jim as you say you are involved in creating music.

Hmmm, pretty mysterious comment here!
LOL, I might have "picked up" on that "point" had you made it clearer!

What does hmmmmm mean i've never seen much written about it ..is it a particle of written language or something ? lol

The "Hmmmm" is just my way to let someone know that I read their comment and did not simply ignore it. If this were a spoken discussion, I'd be saying Hmmm quite often along with a head nod, raised eye-brows, lip movements, etc. and I would do it in a RESPECTFUL manner!
Owing to your sour and offensive attitudes and comments above, which I've made BOLD, and the unfortunate differences in our cultural styles of addressing others, I see no point in discussing anything else with you so, good bye, Joe.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Joe, in the interest of clarity and accuracy, I have gone to the trouble of reconstructing the entire exchange that your current post is referring to since this forum does not include all of the material that was quoted or discussed before.........


And now, on to our latest communication..............


I have no idea what you are referring to so you should have quoted my comments here for a response.


Why not?

Really!

No big deal!


It's bad manners to suddenly demonstrate disrespect and contempt by refusing to answer a POLITE question about your use of the "?" in "strange" places and making insulting comments about "becoming an English Teacher". I have not tried to teach you or anyone anything about English Grammar! . I smell CONTEMPT coming from you here and I don't like it! Your obviously hostile and disrespectful attitude says a lot about you, Joe.


I am not a Troll and have communicated with you in a POLITE and respectful manner so, being rude, offensive and accusatory with me is not going to help us have a reasonable nor friendly exchange! Quite a poor show, Joe!


Hmmm, pretty mysterious comment here!
LOL, I might have "picked up" on that "point" had you made it clearer!




The "Hmmmm" is just my way to let someone know that I read their comment and did not simply ignore it. If this were a spoken discussion, I'd be saying Hmmm quite often along with a head nod, raised eye-brows, lip movements, etc. and I would do it in a RESPECTFUL manner!
Owing to your sour and offensive attitudes and comments above, which I've made BOLD, and the unfortunate differences in our cultural styles of addressing others, I see no point in discussing anything else with you so, good bye, Joe.

Looks good Jim ! Reminded me of a script for a play. Perhaps its the synopsis of a novel. lol.