When people try argue against veganism - Page 9

mogenblue · #81 24-09-2016, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Yes, out of sight, out of mind - and for a reason.

The Livestock Industry isn't just abusing and destroying billions of animals, it's destroying the planet too.
Even the UN and world governments acknowledge this fact, which is why they are looking into test tube meat and insects as alternative protein sources. Though why they don't just advocate a plant-based diet ....

Eating insects...
I read a lot of sf stories by Jack Vance. He described in some of his stories that his hero learned not to ask where his food came from when he got in a remote restaurant on a distant planet. He was afraid he couldn't handle a single bite anymore.

The Dutch Health Council seems to make a shift towards more plant based food in a healthy diet:
https://www.gezondheidsraad.nl/en/ta...uidelines-2015

It's similar to the healthy eating plate by Harvard.

Debrah · #82 24-09-2016, 02:11 PM

Well for what it’s worth, here’s my take on your question mogenblue.

In my family, I don’t preach, I only practise. I do have to live with these people after all. The result of that is that my husband is pretty much on board with most of my philosophy and currently only eats fishes when we go out and my youngest daughter is also a vegan who has chosen another vegan as her partner. And I participate actively in all kinds of online posts and discussions on the issue of animals and their place in the world and I’ve made a point of learning all aspects of the topic so that I can be two things:

knowledgeable of the true and visible facts
a great example of vegan health

Out of my comfort zone to me means, viewing, every day, some of the worst and cruelest of human treatment of animals around the world so that I always remember who I am speaking for. I have always had problems with depression since a child, and to be honest, the belief that they deserve a Witness has made that worse. Right now I’m level, but I’ve recently come out of a protracted phase of tiptoeing around the desire to ‘be gone’. Fortunately for me I guess, I’m a bit of a coward and I love my family too much to do that to them. But yes, out of that abandonment of my comfort zone, has come opportunity to plant seeds.

mogenblue · #83 24-09-2016, 02:21 PM

Thank you Debrah,

How long have you been vegan?
I felt close to a depression for years. When I stopped eating meat and later on skipped the last bit of dairy from my diet my well being seriously improved.
There is also scientific research that confirms that a plant based diet is tied to happiness:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2016/07...es/107038.html
and here is the actual report:
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi...PH.2016.303260

On the other hand, I have read that people with children are generally less happy then people without them. But the parents also said they would not want to trade for anything in the world.

Debrah · #84 24-09-2016, 02:35 PM

Hi Gem,

You’ve made an interesting comment too. Personally, I think there are degrees of everything. Degrees of happiness, degrees of sorrow, degrees of compassion. And there are different focus’s of compassion. Some are more compassionate than others for the refugees of Syria or towards families in a health crisis. So in a sense yes, you’re right to equate vegan with compassion as if it is the only thing that illustrates compassion would be flawed. But we’re talking here about the beings that we share this world with and the average person will say the words, ‘I love animals’ but then they have no problem with killing and eating animals whose lives are tortuous at best. Is that love? Where is the compassion there?

Some ancient philosophies will tell you that we are all one and this spiritual understanding is to a very great degree, upheld by quantum physics. There is the fact that ‘observation’ causes reality/matter to come into being. And if ‘observation’ is required to cause this reality and we’re all just collections of particles with space between our bits and each other, then where is the line that demarcates between me and that cow in the feedlot as I stand there or is there a blending of all the particles in that moment and ‘my edges' are mixed with that 'cow’s edges’ and the rocks and the trees and the worlds ‘edges’. So if ‘All is One’, than my slaughter of that animal is the equivalent of killing myself.

And to carry that idea even further, if observation is the cause of the waves of possibility coalescing into our particles and this reality, then 'whomever' is doing the observing is the One that we are all part of at the most basic and beginning point. We are all part of that One, emanating from that One's dreams, ideas, observation....you, the cow, me, the dog, mogenblue, the elephant, the whale, chickens, songbirds.......

And while mogunblue has mentioned people who are poor and impoverished having to eat something, which no one would disagree with, the fact remains that the number of acres currently raising animals or animal feed would produce at least 5x as much energy calories/acre if they were planted to human food instead of animal feeds and grazing. So really, continuing to raise animals for food is choosing to allow people to starve and to kill our environment. And right there is the problem that is the cause of people dying for lack of food, lack of human understanding, care and will.

mogenblue · #85 24-09-2016, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debrah

And while mogunblue has mentioned people who are poor and impoverished having to eat something, which no one would disagree with, the fact remains that the number of acres currently raising animals or animal feed would produce at least 5x as much energy calories/acre if they were planted to human food instead of animal feeds and grazing. So really, continuing to raise animals for food is choosing to allow people to starve and to kill our environment. And right there is the problem that is the cause of people dying for lack of food, lack of human understanding, care and will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc

mogenblue · #86 24-09-2016, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Yes, out of sight, out of mind - and for a reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3uipTO-4A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAlwoAflWrM
There's your funky edition

mogenblue · #87 24-09-2016, 06:06 PM

and this one's for Debrah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0

(throw me out, mod)

Debrah · #88 25-09-2016, 05:56 PM

Hi mogenblue,

George Michael was a hottie and a good singer but I have to admit, I'm just a teeny perplexed as to the reason for the video, but then, I'm one of those folks with a distinct inability to read between the lines. I NEVER figure it out when I watch movies or shows about detectives or spies or that sort of thing and always have to wait until the end when they pull it all together for the audience! My brain is too 'literal' I guess. But thanks for it anyway because I enjoyed being reminded of the good old days ;-)

I've followed the vegan lifestyle for about ten years but my kids were long gone by that time and the depression that I struggle with was an issue for me even when I was a kid I think. We had a lousy childhood, divorced parents, (angry) and rigid mother, etc. so I can't blame my kids. They just took my mind off it.

But I do also have this a link to a study that suggests you are right in your observation that ending meat consumption is good for the mood of people. I'm going to bookmark your links too because they're interesting so thanks for them.

Hey, maybe we oughta demand that all the parties involved in wars everywhere only eat carrots and lettuce? One of two things will happen, they'll either find their mood improved (who wants to fight when you just feel happy?) or they'll develop nutrient deficiencies that will make them feel so ****** all they'll want to do is stay home in bed with the curtains drawn. Win-win either way maybe.

Debrah · #89 25-09-2016, 06:15 PM

Hi mogenblue,

George Michael was a hottie and a good musician but I have to admit, I'm just a teeny perplexed as to the reason for the video, but then, I'm one of those folks with a distinct inability to read between the lines. I NEVER figure it out when I watch movies or shows about detectives or spies or that sort of thing and always have to wait until the end when they pull it all together for the audience! My brain is too 'literal' I guess. But thanks for it anyway because I enjoyed being reminded of the good old days ;-)

I've followed the vegan lifestyle for about ten years but my kids were long gone by that time and the depression that I struggle with was an issue for me even when I was a kid I think. We had a lousy childhood, divorced parents, (angry) and rigid mother, etc. so I can't blame my kids. They just took my mind off it.

But I do also have this a link to a study that suggests you are right in your observation that ending meat consumption is good for the mood of people. I'm going to bookmark your links too because they're interesting so thanks for them.

Hey, maybe we oughta demand that all the parties involved in wars everywhere only eat carrots and lettuce? One of two things will happen, they'll either find their mood improved (who wants to fight when you just feel happy?) or they'll develop nutrient deficiencies that will make them feel so crummy, all they'll want to do is stay home in bed with the curtains drawn. Win-win either way maybe.

mogenblue · #90 25-09-2016, 06:26 PM

Hi Debrah,

I had too much alcohol yesterday. One of the benefits of a plant based diet for me is that I have more money to spend on other things. Alcohol is "sort of a hobby" to me... ;)
I was in such a jolly good mood yesterday.

My parents didn't divorce, which they might have should, and I had an angry rigid mother too. She left me with some mental scars I never really got over from. I have had some serious issues with my mother.

I had a deep depression in my mid 30s. Thought seriously about suicide. But someone pointed me to the books of Jozef Rulof, especially The Cycle of the Soul. That made all the difference to me. Life was still hard, even with that knowledge. But the insights I gained helped me to make better decisions in difficult personal situations.

I think it would be great if everybody would switch to a plant based diet. But that is still a long way ahead. I have been talking on a forum of my health insurance company about the benefits of plant based food. After a while they stopped talking back because they were out of arguments. Got to find a new place to put my energy to work.

Have a good day