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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Complementary Therapies & Traditional Medicine > Hypnosis

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  #1  
Old 25-04-2011, 08:21 PM
Psychotheosophy
Posts: n/a
 
Hypnosis and its Relationship to Tempation

My understanding of hypnosis is limited, and I have some questions.

Hypnosis involves associating one thing (e.g. something considered good) with something else (e.g. something considered evil)?

If, like temptation, there is success in doing something good in one regard of any given event,
While there was the desire to do evil, but avoided, in a different regard of the same event,
Can contentment be associated with the desire to do the evil in a similar event?

And if certain cues of a similar event are given through repetition,
Can this increase you're contentment in desiring to do evil,

The more that we are unaware that we have made these associations,
Doing evil becomes automatic, without reasoning, when trying to do good?

Eventually, can this be generalized, in complete awareness, to the point where goodness itself means evil?
And manipulating physiological desires (eating, drinking, sleeping, sex, etc...) are powerful and effective places to start?
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  #2  
Old 26-04-2011, 06:15 PM
Psychotheosophy
Posts: n/a
 
Again, I'm not an expert on hypnosis,
But I can try to describe what I have encountered,
And these thoughts have occurred to me only since late on Easter Sunday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
If, like temptation, there is success in doing something good in one regard of any given event,
While there was the desire to do evil, but avoided, in a different regard of the same event,
Can contentment be associated with the desire to do the evil in a similar event?
Because they occur in one event,
Contentment in following through on one desire (doing good),
Can be associated with contentment in not following through on another desire (doing evil),

So to avoid confusing good and evil, following through and not following through,
One can become at most certain that from the event (reality?),
Contentment is associated with desire (apathy?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
The more that we are unaware that we have made these associations,
Doing evil becomes automatic, without reasoning, when trying to do good?

And manipulating physiological desires (eating, drinking, sleeping, sex, etc...) are powerful and effective places to start?
Someone in a large room with many people,
May start coughing when hearing another person cough,
Without realizing that they are coughing because of hearing the other cough.
Which means that people can be secretly manipulated by using their physiological desires against them.

And if coughing is associated with some action,
Then people can be secretly manipulated to automatically perform some action,
Which they may normally consider as evil, and furthermore, do it without a reason.
And if you believe in supernatural things like mind reading and thought insertion, a person could essentially be under "remote control."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
Eventually, can this be generalized, in complete awareness, to the point where goodness itself means evil?
To keep themselves from coughing,
By focusing on the idea that hearing coughing can cause them to cough,
The association can be strengthened through repetition, leading them to cough.
(Trying to do good automatically means trying to do evil, and without a reason.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
And if certain cues of a similar event are given through repetition,
Can this increase you're contentment in desiring to do evil,
From theories of learning,
Associations may only be considered at first,
But they can be strengthen through repetition.
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  #3  
Old 28-04-2011, 12:13 AM
Psychotheosophy
Posts: n/a
 
It seem that,

In one event where there are two temptations to do evil (A and B),
And if there is more pressure to yield to A,
We become more aware of resisting A,
And less aware of resisting B.

After resisting both, we are happy.

However, from the pressure to focus on A,
We are more likely to identify our happiness,
With resisting A, of which we are more aware,
Than B, of which we were less aware.

Once poorly aware of the connection between happiness with resisting B,
Then in a similar event, the more we try to seek happiness,
By distraction, we are likely to yield to B,
Of which we are less aware.

(Especially if B is a physiological desire.)

It also seems that added unrelated distractions from resisting both A and B,
Could distance ourselves even further from resisting B.

It also seems that yielding to one temptation could lead to a more serious one.
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  #4  
Old 28-04-2011, 02:14 AM
jjj
Posts: n/a
 
I may be misreading your post. I had a hard time digesting it and focusing on it.

Different theories (such as theories of learning) also exist within the realm of hypnosis/ hypnotherapy. In one way, you may believe that everything in life is hypnosis. We go through different states of consciousness throughout our day. When a person undergoes hypnosis, it is for the purpose of something (entertainment, healing, changing habits, etc). What is achieved in these sessions will indeed reflect the intentions.


Associations are made as a way of learning. Look up Pavlov's dogs. We can train ourselves (and maybe others) to make associations both positive and negative. It's important to remember that we are not dogs.

I am a certified hypnotherapist (heart-centered hypnotherapy) and use hypnosis in combination with other therapy modalities in order to facilitate healing. Indeed associations have been formed through our lives as ways of learning. For instance, part of what I do is to assist people in identifying where certain emotions are stored in their bodies (body memories) and tracing the associated memory events as a way to show patterns and to heal the source of the issue. The healing is not an image and it is not something that is 'fooling' the person into becoming well. It brings things into light.

More on associations and this form of hypnotherapy. Another tool that I use is a 'body cue' which IS an association. Such a cue as bringing the finger and thumb together or placing one hand inside the other is a form of grounding a person to a certain resource state. However, there is really nothing extremely unique in this from any other type of grounding.
==
EDIT/ADD:

Something to remember is that things that are learned (in hypnotherapy and in life) are adaptive. For instance, if we have learned to isolate ourselves and to keep others out, this was an adaptive way at one time of keeping ourselves safe (most likely no longer adaptive later in life). Sometimes we adapt by compartmentalizing and breaking off into parts or checking out of our bodies... again, no longer adaptive. So these things are maladaptive now and are hurting us but at the time, they were adaptive and they were learned.

I don't think of evil in quite the same way that you do but... if at some time playing in your dark side was adaptive, the that is where you were at that time. I guess that I don't judge that type of thing... but when whatever it was that made that adaption necessary is healed, the darkness doesn't really need to be explored anymore. When you find yourself, you find the light.

btw... you will not be manipulated to do something that you consider evil. Hearing someone cough, makes you subconsciously become aware of the feeling in your throat, etc. This is why maybe several people cough but still others do not. A yawn is even worse! But a yawn and a cough are not against anyone's ethical code of living. We are not giving credence enough to a person's values. In order for a person to commit an act that they otherwise would not (see Hitler), they must justify it under their current belief system. This means lying to themselves or being deceived in this type of way. I don't think that physiological desires are evil but they are sometimes maladaptive. :) Taking out the 'good' and 'evil' can sometimes be beneficial in understanding things more clearly. It is adaptive or maladaptive.
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  #5  
Old 28-04-2011, 06:31 PM
Psychotheosophy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjj
you will not be manipulated to do something that you consider evil.

Are you sure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
In one event where there are two temptations to do evil (A and B),
And if there is more pressure to yield to A,
We become more aware of resisting A,
And less aware of resisting B.

If A and B are both sexual temptations in one event, and are motivated by physiological desire,
And, by the initiation by someone else, focus is on A, and not on B,
And after successfully resisting the temptations,
Are followed by a negative consequence,...

Then the negative consequence can reinforce any dissatisfaction (such as regret) related to not yielding to 'B,' and occurs outside of awareness. If 'A' is associated with trying to avoid spending money, or trying to avoid something illegal, as in the event of prostitution, dissatisfaction with not yielding to 'B' could then be associated with dissatisfaction with trying to avoid spending money, or trying to avoid something illegal, and occur outside of awareness.

Then,

If presenting with a sexual image to arouse a physiological response, which leads to successfully resisting the temptations involved in the event of A and B, and is followed by a negative consequence; then presenting a sexual image could lead a person to be dissatisfied with trying to avoid spending money, or trying to avoid something illegal, which occurs outside of awareness. Pressuring someone regarding financial difficulties, could lead this person to be dissatisfied with resisting a sexual temptation which may have nothing to do with money, and also occurs outside of awareness. Hearing a police car siren, inconspicuously in the distance, could lead a person to be dissatisfied with avoiding something he considers immoral, which may have nothing to do with the law, sex, or money, which again occurs outside of awareness. Also, if any of these situations are followed by a positive consequence; dissatisfaction in trying to avoid spending money, or trying to avoid something illegal, or avoiding something he considers immoral, is reinforced, and again may occur outside of awareness.

Again,

In a movie theater, people are usually focused on the movie rather than the audience, but may start coughing. They may later realize that they were coughing because they heard another cough, but were initially unaware of this connection. If coughing is associated with sexual arousal (both are physiological responses), hearing a person cough could lead to dissatisfaction in trying to avoid spending money, while at the same time remain unaware of the connection.

The extent of making and cueing associations to apparently unrelated subjects seems unlimited, and there seems to me to be at least three possible responses to these which remarkably resemble actions of con-artists:

1. Don't resist any temptation (knowingly become a slave to one's own physiological desires, which can be manipulated by others).
2. Resist temptations, but (unknowingly become a slave to one's own physiological desires which can be manipulated by others).
3. From a Catholic perspective (I'm Catholic):
  • Resist temptations, do what you think is right.
  • Develop temperance over physiological desires (such as through fasting),
  • Have faith in a God who can not be controlled by others, and who guides and keeps you according to his will.

Are there any other possible responses?
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  #6  
Old 28-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Enya
Posts: n/a
 
I have *no* idea how you link all this to hypnosis...
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  #7  
Old 28-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Krishna-prem
Posts: n/a
 
I'm sorry Psychotheosophy, I have a great deal of difficulty following your line of thinking. JJJ gave you a very good answer from both a hypnosis and psychology stand point.

Your second post doesn't really have anything to do with hypnosis. If you have a specific question about it can you please try to be a bit clearer.

Cheers

KP
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  #8  
Old 29-04-2011, 12:45 AM
jjj
Posts: n/a
 
I don't think that sexual urges are evil nor do I think that sex is evil. Now, having sexual encounters outside of your marriage (if married) may be maladaptive if you wish to keep the relationship. But, I'm not Catholic, either. I don't fit into fear-based disciplines. Each person has his/ her own path. I hope that yours finds you well and blessed. :)

Don't picture a zebra-striped elephant right now :) See how the subconscious mind does not hear negatives. If you did not picture a black and white striped elephant with bright blue eyes, gazing at you just now then perhaps I am not speaking to you. If you did... I have complete control over you ;) . Now... don't kill your neighbor tonight. Oops, I guess I don't have complete control over you after all.
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  #9  
Old 29-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Psychotheosophy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna-prem
I'm sorry Psychotheosophy, I have a great deal of difficulty following your line of thinking.
Maybe this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
Then the negative consequence can reinforce any dissatisfaction (such as regret) related to not yielding to 'B,'
Regret can occur in two ways in the single event of resisting a temptation.

1. Regret for not indulging in the temptation,
2. Regret for considering whether to indulge in the temptation.

Since they are both a sources of regret,
These two ways can be confused with one another.
(e.g Catholics sometimes confuse temptations with sins in the confessional).

Sometimes we distract ourselves from thinking about uncomfortable guilty feelings,
However, hidden severe guilt has been connected with uncontrollable bizarre behavior (i.e. amnesia).
Freud wrote a number of case studies where he treated people exhibiting uncontrollable bizarre behavior.
He often uncovered underlying severe guilt (many times sexual guilt).
Once the guilt was uncovered and discussed reasonably,
The bizarre behavior ceased almost instantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotheosophy
Are there any other possible responses?
Perhaps Catholic confession would be useful in responding against hypnosis?
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  #10  
Old 30-04-2011, 02:07 PM
jjj
Posts: n/a
 
I'm sorry but I think you may be a little confused about what hypnosis is. I've been studying for a number of years and it's difficult to lay it all out because it's complex. Memory is not an exact thing... and we don't REALLY understand how it works. You are assuming that hypnosis (from Satan???) has occurred when there is repressed shame (most shame is repressed :) )This may be in the wrong forum but there is also a problem with confusing guilt with shame.

Guilt is adaptive. Shame is maladaptive. Guilt motivates one to confess. Shame motivates one to conceal. Guilt is feeling bad for something that you did wrong. Shame is feeling that YOU are wrong, unworthy, bad.
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