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  #61  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:11 AM
SerendipityLizard SerendipityLizard is offline
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Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
I'm aware what you mean and I don't fully disagree, though I don't really think my case is comparable to a toddler wanting to drink bleach. As long my want(s) aren't hurting anyone or myself, what's the big deal? Who or whatever that stands between me and my only wish really should just die off already and leave me alone, it's that simple.




Yes I do agree that to a point suffering in some way may be neccesary to grow. When traumas and endless torment are involved it's just plain evil if you ask me, whether a human or a godly being is the cause of it. I don't think there shouldn't be any suffering however, but I do think it should at least be backed up with justice since many victims of cruel fates are rather undeserving. I hope Michael isn't offended by what I'm about to say since he's so close with God, but from my point of view it's about time for God to wake up (if he exists) and take a good look at what's happening on this oversized mudball he created. Ah enough for now, I don't wanna give the impression of some stereotypical emo character from some random anime xD but you know what I mean I guess.

Oh no problem, Slayer. Haha, feel free to critique God as much as you’d like. Higher Beings aren’t as easily offended as human beings often think. They have no need for some formal respect for some status — your relationship to them can be as casual as you like.

Stereotypical emo anime character? Oh ho ho, as an anime fan, I agree. Some anime have the worst villains. xD. I believe your pessimism is a lot more complicated and in depth than those characters after all.

The human ideal of perfect happiness and joy isn’t the goal of God or the Source. In many beings’ experience, to reach some kind of stable joy, enlightenement or awakening is tiring. They still feel the need to experience more variety and change — to remain stagnant can be very frustrating, so many souls incarnate themselves to a lower vibration to start an entirely new cycle of their journeys again.

Human beings don’t seem to realize how perfection can parodixically be very unfulfilling to many beings. Joy is not the same as satisfaction. There is no satisfaction from growing over obstacles, problems and conflicts anymore. They have the choice to remain stagnant of course, but eventually, we all feel the need to change and experience the new.

This is why the Source allows it — it is their free will, and in humanity’s deepest soul’s desire, this is what they seek. But in this lowering themselves to gain flaws to grow out of, they also risk the inability to not be able to directly contact or be influenced by God’s abilites anymore. This is the same for us human beings, and even many Higher Beings as well.

We of course, rather that suffering doesn’t go too far, but the universe is more complicated than the idea that Higher Beings can control everything that happens.

Why does evil happen in this world? Not because Higher Beings aren’t all loving, but because they aren’t all powerful. This is why it’s neccessary to train us human beings to be independent in our soul’s journey and to think for ourselves — because they won’t always have the power to rush in and save everyone.

Haha, in my opinion, when people yap about embracing “love” and “acceptance” as justification for some kind of blind obedience to Higher Will, I would not believe them. Logical contradictions are logical contradictions, and every belief system with those flaws? I don’t believe them myself. Every single thing I believe in spiritually is out of self experimentation and questioning than faith.

I know from experience with having him around 24/7 that AA Michael can be wrong, so I’d appreciate us human beings to give feedback of our own combined opinions to the Higher ups. They are not the ones who are going through our human experience after all, and so they aren’t the ultimate deciders of our fate. They know what it’s like to have knowledge beyond us, but they don’t know what it’s like to have the lack of knowledge that we do.

I’m glad you’re doing the same.

Take care.

SL.

Last edited by SerendipityLizard : 04-07-2018 at 02:09 AM.
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  #62  
Old 04-07-2018, 02:43 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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Originally Posted by SerendipityLizard
Haha, you assume the analogy that we are like children who can’t think for ourselves at all. I’d think it more of a suitable analogy of trying to train a teenager to think for themselves, and act as they like. Higher Beings are not going to train you people well to this skill without giving you some freedom.

Children? I’d give humanity and many adults in our species more credit than that. But hey, feel free to disagree.
that's not what I meant, was just giving an example. I believe very much in free will. There's so much to learn to get to the next level I guess one could say. I am not always the best with words sorry.
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  #63  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:08 AM
SerendipityLizard SerendipityLizard is offline
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Originally Posted by hallow
that's not what I meant, was just giving an example. I believe very much in free will. There's so much to learn to get to the next level I guess one could say. I am not always the best with words sorry.

It’s okay. :) . Haha, sometimes I make misunderstandings like that with people myself. All is forgiven.

Many of you are not wrong, in fact, many of what you say around here is wise. But the way you teach these ideas seem very vague and rushed to the conclusions without explaining the reasons behind them well.

There needs to be beliefs that act as logical and compassionate foundations for other beliefs, and skipping to high level concepts without exploring the basics to teach is unfortunate. We don’t teach Calculus to preschool children. Why are people doing the same thing in spirituality?

I thought truth was all about questioning assumptions, yet people here just skip to conclusions without debating or explaining the reasons behind their arguments, haha.

I suggest people here make critics believe you by explaining to them more, not ignoring what they question around it. Believing wise sayings for the wrong reasons isn’t teaching independence of thought, and I hope people recognize that.

Did I not say that I treat spirituality like a science?

Hope you enjoy your free will.

SL.
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  #64  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:32 AM
angelic star angelic star is offline
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Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Rah nam, hello. Yes that is a very interesting and true point which I not seen much discussed. There is an interplay as they maintain sentient free will as something which should never be abrogated, lest it tear asunder the integrity or fabric of creation. I wonder if you could expound a bit more on that. These are exactly the sort of conversations I like to have here

Also...for Slayer, see what I said about the foundational nature of sentient free will and, more broadly, of choice (even at the particle level)...that is probably the most fundamental laws or corollaries of the universe, freedom of choice being one of the most fundamental aspects of manifest Love. And yet, as Rah nam implies, not everything is possible. There is a constrained infinity of choice, of what may be, which must respect the laws of creation, both physical and metaphysical. It's the latter that I particularly want to discuss further with Rah Nam

Now that you can rest easy on the sanctity of your free will, I would underscore the criticality of your intention. You must desire to align with the good, and be receptive to What Is, and then progression, shift, or breakthrough can occur. For certain, this can critically occur between lives, but for certain, you make choices in each moment during a lifetime.

Begin to consciously choose to align with the good, which is another way of saying choose to align with who you are at centre...who you truly are.

And in yet another way, this is the same as saying choose to align with the way of the heart-led consciousness. The heart centre. Where you consciously and freely choose what is in your own highest good equally to all others, and what is in their highest good equally to yours.

You choose simply by living. By means of your day-do-day manifest words and deeds, and ultimately your intent and thought as well. And that, my friend, is one of the most critical ways by which you steer your own ship on this spiritual journey. That, and also by finding God within, and thus in all things.

Peace & blessings
7L

You worded it beautifully 7L, sentient free will. A conscious choice aligned with intentions , and having enough discernment and experience to do the right thing. There is also a law of attitude I believe, how we perceive or reflect onto others, is returned or reflected back to us. So the original creator is us, we also receive our own reflections back. So in these few strings of tiny events on our journey, where we take small steps towards personal growth, how are we attempting to define God or higher beings. While we originally are creators ( as law of reflection states everything first happens inside of us and then corresponds outside ) unless an intent is consciously aligned with universal truths themselves , it cannot manifest. We cannot just force something to happen.
There is also personal karma, like 7L said the deeds and choices we consciously make everyday in our lives, one cannot aggressively force things to happen. There has to be readiness for it.
There are only two base emotions love and fear, all other emotions stem from these two emotions alone. Anything in fear always restricts. Satisfaction is human reaction to need, ambition or greed. It's base intention might not be the purest. It does not say much of sentient individual on a higher road on their journey, whose intentions are pure. It's not the same thing as experiencing joy or bliss by a sincere seeker on their path. There is no comparison here.
I believe there are attempts to talk of God and higher beings, one must first reflect on self and see if they are able to successfully define themselves in one lifetime alone. Then perhaps we could attempt to talk of higher beings or god successfully.
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  #65  
Old 04-07-2018, 03:49 AM
SerendipityLizard SerendipityLizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelic star
You worded it beautifully 7L, sentient free will. A conscious choice aligned with intentions , and having enough discernment and experience to do the right thing. There is also a law of attitude I believe, how we perceive or reflect onto others, is returned or reflected back to us. So the original creator is us, we also receive our own reflections back. So in these few strings of tiny events on our journey, where we take small steps towards personal growth, how are we attempting to define God or higher beings. While we originally are creators ( as law of reflection states everything first happens inside of us and then corresponds outside ) unless an intent is consciously aligned with universal truths themselves , it cannot manifest. We cannot just force something to happen.
There is also personal karma, like 7L said the deeds and choices we consciously make everyday in our lives, one cannot aggressively force things to happen. There has to be readiness for it.
There are only two base emotions love and fear, all other emotions stem from these two emotions alone. Anything in fear always restricts. And if base intentions are in fear, then we are not steadily moving towards our growth. It's not that we are not walking our paths, but we are still under the many illusions/ delusions of life in general. Taking the roundabout means and justifying it. We ask for it so we get it. Satisfaction is human reaction to need, ambition or greed. It's base intention might not be the purest. It does not say much of sentient individual on a higher road on their journey, whose intentions are pure. It's not the same thing as experiencing joy or bliss by a sincere seeker on their path. There is no comparison here.
I believe there are attempts to talk of God and higher beings, one must first reflect on self and see if they are able to successfully define themselves in one lifetime alone. Then perhaps we could attempt to talk of higher beings or god successfully.

Interesting. I think it’s wonderful to define God for ourselves.

But mind if I kindly ask you to explain what you mean by manifestation being out of our beliefs? After all, manifestations aren’t solely made by individuals but also by a combination of different groups of people with contradictory beliefs. Is it not reasonable to believe that we don’t have complete control on faith due to these interconnecting thought patterns? It seems to me we are not God. The combination of all of us is God.

I’m also curious in how you say fear is the opposite of love. Can’t you fear out of love? Let’s say there’s a car heading straight at you, and you quickly drive away out of fear to save yourself and whoever you care about in there out of love. How about the fear that drives people to be cautious in the right moments? The fear that allows us to be safe to avoid dangerous places, individuals or events?

It sounds like such a loving thing to encourage safety — just like how a mother might tell a child not to play with scissors.

I’d love to have an open discussion about this. Can I hear your opinion?

Thanks. :) .

SL.
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  #66  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:27 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight
Sounds interesting. But nobody, be it a higher force or not, has any right to decide for me what I need and don't need. Only I should have that right.
I would like another shot at this one. What I first said came out wrong. Everyone has hopes and dreams, the best ones are the hardest to get that's what makes them the most rewarding. Try not to get consumed in the fight of it. As long as you one day reach your dreams does it matter what path you took? I am under the impression you want to take 1 certain road to your dreams.
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  #67  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:33 AM
angelic star angelic star is offline
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Originally Posted by SerendipityLizard
Interesting. I think it’s wonderful to define God for ourselves.

Quote:
But mind if I kindly ask you to explain what you mean by manifestation being out of our beliefs? After all, manifestations aren’t solely made by individuals but also by a combination of different groups of people with contradictory beliefs.
Is it not reasonable to believe that we don’t have complete control on faith due to these interconnecting thought patterns? It seems to me we are not God. The combination of all of us is God.

I’m also curious in how you say fear is the opposite of love. Can’t you fear out of love? Let’s say there’s a car heading straight at you, and you quickly drive away out of fear to save yourself and whoever you care about in there out of love. How about the fear that drives people to be cautious in the right moments? The fear that allows us to be safe to avoid dangerous places, individuals or events?

It sounds like such a loving thing to encourage safety — just like how a mother might tell a child not to play with scissors.

I’d love to have an open discussion about this. Can I hear your opinion?

Thanks. :) .

SL.

Hi there,

I am not very fond of giving my opinion just because someone asks for it. But anyways....

Quote:
But mind if I kindly ask you to explain what you mean by manifestation being out of our beliefs? After all, manifestations aren’t solely made by individuals but also by a combination of different groups of people with contradictory beliefs.

I am sorry when did I say manifestation being out 'beliefs' ? I didnt talk of 'beliefs'. Please re read what I have said.

Quote:
After all, manifestations aren’t solely made by individuals but also by a combination of different groups of people with contradictory beliefs.

What do you mean by 'Manifestations aren't soleley made of individuals but combination of different groups of people'... are you saying collectively we are able to manifest ? what are you saying ? Are you demanding an explanation for your own set of beliefs or you are talking of collective karma ? You want to talk of collective and not just individual ? I am not sure, it's out of context with what I said.

Scattered interests or contradictory beliefs have nothing to do with commonality or common purpose within a collective. If there are too many scattered interests, and a weaker will the collective will fall apart. And if not there is a stronger common purpose to bind them together. It's law of attraction.


Quote:
Is it not reasonable to believe that we don’t have complete control on faith due to these interconnecting thought patterns?

Is your personal faith dependent on interconnected thought patterns ? or your saying people's faith are dependent on interconnected thought patterns ? what are these interconnected thought patterns and how are they connected to faith ?


Quote:
It seems to me we are not God. The combination of all of us is God.

You are free to believe what you want to.

Quote:
I’m also curious in how you say fear is the opposite of love. Can’t you fear out of love? Let’s say there’s a car heading straight at you, and you quickly drive away out of fear to save yourself and whoever you care about in there out of love. How about the fear that drives people to be cautious in the right moments? The fear that allows us to be safe to avoid dangerous places, individuals or events?

Okay Fear is not Love. All emotions, name them, name any emotions they all have base emotions of fear or love.
Okay if a car is driving straight at me yes I will drive away, or if a young child were to drink bleach or poison I would protect them. It's an impulse on what must be done. It's my duty to protect them. I couldn't be just standing along the lines watching them drink bleach or poison right because well god has made everyone perfectly capable to take care of themselves. We are not build for complacency. So when a mother protects her young ones, it is also ultimately what is natural, which is also out of love, an impulse to protect. The base intentions are not in fear, they are in love.

Its a duty, its what must be done.

It depends on the type of actions. Like hallow said every action has a reaction. If we kill someone it does not have the same consequences , as moving quickly away when a car wants to hit us. Every action has an equal a reaction. Make sense ?
So when you do something out of love it has similar consequences. When one does something in fear it has the same. The impact or degree of the reaction whether it be in fear or in love, depends on the deed / action itself.

What will you do if a car was running straight at you ? Will you let the car hit you ? It's common sense.


It has nothing to do with confusing love and fear. Fear is not Love. It is never love, they are different things. There is always a base intent or an original intent.

Hope this satisfies you now.
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  #68  
Old 04-07-2018, 05:03 AM
angelic star angelic star is offline
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Originally Posted by hallow
OK, let's say you have a very young child, and they want to drink bleach, they have the right to drink it are you going to let them? Here's one of the universal laws I live by every action has a reaction, positive or negative. The universe doesn't care either way, why should it.

You are absolutely right hallow. It's common sense. We are not going to stand by the sidelines and watch a child drink poison and philosophize otherwise. It's a duty and every action/ choice we make does have a reaction to it. The base intention of it is love, protection. It's what must be done, what is the right thing to do.
One could also chose not to protect or love. That is also entirely personal choice or free will to do what is right or not.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:42 AM
SerendipityLizard SerendipityLizard is offline
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Originally Posted by angelic star
Hi there,

I am not very fond of giving my opinion just because someone asks for it. But anyways....



I am sorry when did I say manifestation being out 'beliefs' ? I didnt talk of 'beliefs'. Please re read what I have said.



What do you mean by 'Manifestations aren't soleley made of individuals but combination of different groups of people'... are you saying collectively we are able to manifest ? what are you saying ? Are you demanding an explanation for your own set of beliefs or you are talking of collective karma ? You want to talk of collective and not just individual ? I am not sure, it's out of context with what I said.

Scattered interests or contradictory beliefs have nothing to do with commonality or common purpose within a collective. If there are too many scattered interests, and a weaker will the collective will fall apart. And if not there is a stronger common purpose to bind them together. It's law of attraction.




Is your personal faith dependent on interconnected thought patterns ? or your saying people's faith are dependent on interconnected thought patterns ? what are these interconnected thought patterns and how are they connected to faith ?




You are free to believe what you want to.



Okay Fear is not Love. All emotions, name them, name any emotions they all have base emotions of fear or love.
Okay if a car is driving straight at me yes I will drive away, or if a young child were to drink bleach or poison I would protect them. It's an impulse on what must be done. It's my duty to protect them. I couldn't be just standing along the lines watching them drink bleach or poison right because well god has made everyone perfectly capable to take care of themselves. We are not build for complacency. So when a mother protects her young ones, it is also ultimately what is natural, which is also out of love, an impulse to protect. The base intentions are not in fear, they are in love.

Its a duty, its what must be done.

It depends on the type of actions. Like hallow said every action has a reaction. If we kill someone it does not have the same consequences , as moving quickly away when a car wants to hit us. Every action has an equal a reaction. Make sense ?
So when you do something out of love it has similar consequences. When one does something in fear it has the same. The impact or degree of the reaction whether it be in fear or in love, depends on the deed / action itself.

What will you do if a car was running straight at you ? Will you let the car hit you ? It's common sense.


It has nothing to do with confusing love and fear. Fear is not Love. It is never love, they are different things. There is always a base intent or an original intent.

Hope this satisfies you now.

My, my, when did I ever say I wanted a child to drink bleach? It seems you're making unnecessary assumptions about what I believe in. What I simply wanted to say is that we are intelligent beings who can metaphorically choose not to drink bleach, and instead of being told to just obey like children isn't helpful.

Being able to give reasons while still giving correct advice and some discipline helps. Of course, Higher Beings would want to save you from life threatening decisions like that, but it's an oversimplifcation to believe that every decision in life is life threatening. Some freedom of free will over ordinary choices is needed.

I am saying something related with collective beliefs. Isn't the definition of the law of attraction is to use your beliefs to attract events? Or, at the very least, use the emotions of love and care to attract these events -- which seems to be the specific idea you're making. But I could also say that this is the belief that love attracts good -- making it compatible.

I didn't say I didn't believe in the law of attraction. I meant it wasn't as strong as you might think of it. Other people are using the law of attraction for themselves and different people allow to attract different things -- This, of course this affects others around them, creating a chain where they can't fully control things.

-- Contradictory vibrations meet all the time, or are you saying all human beings are actually perfectly united in peace? I doubt we all are. I still prefer if people encourage the love to attract a positive vibration for themselves, and I think you are wise in that. Absolutely wonderful. But it is not perfect in the least.

About avoiding the car crash? Do you think you'll try to move away and go to action for your loved ones if you weren't scared for them? We don't bat an eye when we're told we can feel sad for other's plights out of love, but for some reason we can't fear for other's situations? People who damage their brain to lack fear often die early -- because they risk themselves to dangerous situations.

All emotions come from fear and love? That seems oversimplified to me, as I've studied psychology and seen how complex emotions can be. At the top of my head, I can name many situations where I felt something other than fear and love. I've explored many of my emotions in depth in journaling for years, and I can still see the deeper reasons for them and my flawed insecurities. I'm sure that on a practical level, others who read this can name some.

There'll always be an equal and opposite attraction? What do you mean? Are you bringing unrelated physics in? As a student who goes to a physics class, all I know of that idea is that when a force is pushed towards something, another force pushes it back. I don't recall the same thing happening beyond the physical into the realm of emotions. It seems rather vague. Can you explain? It sounds as if everyone should feel 50% negative emotions and 50% positive emotions all the time, but we don't.

It seems your understanding of this is too black and white. Correct me if I'm wrong. I won't get angry. You have no need to apologize for expressing what you believe in.

If you dislike giving opinions even if you're giving them, then feel free not to reply back. I encourage free will, and I'd love to respect yours.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:20 AM
angelic star angelic star is offline
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SerendipityLizard]My, my, when did I ever say I wanted a child to drink bleach? It seems you're making unnecessary assumptions about what I believe in. What I simply wanted to say is that we are intelligent beings who can metaphorically choose not to drink bleach, and instead of being told to just obey like children isn't helpful.

Example of a child was also quite metaphorical and a good example given by hallow I believe. It does explain a lot our own baser instincts. And also to answer your question on acting out of fear in love. Our baser instincts are always in fear or love and there is always a first instinct/ first premise to out reactions that is either love or fear. Any emotions, joy, anger, disgust laughter, everything is out of love or fear. It is not an oversimplification to me. Read ' Conversations of God ' by Norman Vincent Peale, he has mentioned similar things in his book.

Quote:
Being able to give reasons while still giving correct advice and some discipline helps. Of course, Higher Beings would want to save you from life threatening decisions like that, but it's an oversimplifcation to believe that every decision in life is life threatening. Some freedom of free will over ordinary choices is needed.


Quote:
Can’t you fear out of love? Let’s say there’s a car heading straight at you, and you quickly drive away out of fear to save yourself and whoever you care about in there out of love. How about the fear that drives people to be cautious in the right moments? The fear that allows us to be safe to avoid dangerous places, individuals or events?

To quote what you had said earlier and in answer to your question...that what I did. You talk too much on 'higher beings'. I don't believe you know much about it.

Thats exactly what I said to answer you question on what one should do in dangerous sitation. Will it not be acting out of fear too. And like I said every action has an impact or degree to which it has an equal reaction. Whether it be big or small.

--
Quote:
Contradictory vibrations meet all the time, or are you saying all human beings are actually perfectly united in peace? I doubt we all are. I still prefer if people encourage the love to attract a positive vibration for themselves, and I think you are wise in that. Absolutely wonderful. But it is not perfect in the least.

Quote:
After all, manifestations aren’t solely made by individuals but also by a combination of different groups of people with contradictory beliefs. Is it not reasonable to believe that we don’t have complete control on faith due to these interconnecting thought patterns?

I think you want to add your own vague opinions a lot just to keep talking. You talked about collective, I said when there are contradictory beliefs but a strong commonality a group thrives, but if there are contradictory beliefs and weaker will, a group does not survive.
You talk of interconnected thought patterns and faith being in control of it, does your personal faith depend on interconnected thought patterns ?


Quote:
All emotions come from fear and love? That seems oversimplified to me, as I've studied psychology and seen how complex emotions can be. At the top of my head, I can name many situations where I felt something other than fear and love. I've explored many of my emotions in depth in journaling for years, and I can still see the deeper reasons for them and my flawed insecurities. I'm sure that on a practical level, others who read this can name some.

You are certainly not the only one in depth knowledge of psychology and journaling, I dont feel it stand true. Because there are many deep and enlightened people in the world and many of us have deeply explored our emotions. What you claim on an online forum is not proof enough.


Quote:
There'll always be an equal and opposite attraction? What do you mean? Are you bringing unrelated physics in? As a student who goes to a physics class, all I know of that idea is that when a force is pushed towards something, another force pushes it back. I don't recall the same thing happening beyond the physical into the realm of emotions. It seems rather vague. Can you explain? It sounds as if everyone should feel 50% negative emotions and 50% positive emotions all the time, but we don't.

It does not take a physics or science student, to understand some thing. What we chose to give our attention to we get, and the actions we take, beget similar reactions. What we chose to work towards, we get. It's simple as that.

Quote:
It seems your understanding of this is too black and white. Correct me if I'm wrong. I won't get angry. You have no need to apologize for expressing what you believe in.

If you dislike giving opinions even if you're giving them, then feel free not to reply back. I encourage free will, and I'd love to respect yours.

I remember blocking you and personally telling you to stay away from my posts and threads. I don't know how you quoted me here when you were blocked in the first place. It just shows you want to argue when I had showed no interest to you a week ago maybe. Yes I do dislike giving my opinions to people who only want to prove they are right, change their versions many times over just to win an argument. I am not too fond of conflicts with people and I don't care much of their forced opinions on others.
Why will I apologize to what I have said, I believe in what I am saying. Please go over all your previous statements, to me most of them are contradicting your own, just for the reason to talk or keep a conversation going. I don't think they have any real truth or experience behind it, but very conflicting and too self engrossed to prove a point.
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