Do we have a Choice NOT to Come Back Human ?

[Lynn]

Do we learn that the earth is round by flying into outer space?

WHOM is to say WE don't can we really say were are oNLY confinded to learing on the Physical Earth Plane...we are but a part of that in the physical body. Our Soul is much more fluid. We might well have mulit layers of learnings . WE are just STUCK on the BRAIN being the end all and be all of man really.




Do we learn that folks live in Australia by visiting?

Here I would say a bit of both. Again we are more than the phyical body....WE are free yes to talk with someone in another land BUT too if we open up our MIND we can see there too. We can go there with out Soul and explore. Take in with all the 5 senses the land that be there.

Do we learn every fact we know by finding it out ourselves.....?[/quote]


I have to wonder if we come with some learnings in us. Like a blue print that is there for what the path of our Soul is here to learn or to maybe complete or expand upon. If it be true OUR Soul is placed in us and that we CHOOSE our parents then might we well have a path in mind of learnings and exploration we want to work on of follow more along.

In many ways YES we find things out ourselves as it the Brain in us that lets us hold those facts. What hold the knowlege is deeper that is the Soul. We learn a fact and its fleeting as memory and brain funciton can fail us.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Lynn

Do we learn that the earth is round by flying into outer space?

WHOM is to say WE don't can we really say were are oNLY confinded to learing on the Physical Earth Plane...we are but a part of that in the physical body. Our Soul is much more fluid. We might well have mulit layers of learnings . WE are just STUCK on the BRAIN being the end all and be all of man really.




Do we learn that folks live in Australia by visiting?

Here I would say a bit of both. Again we are more than the phyical body....WE are free yes to talk with someone in another land BUT too if we open up our MIND we can see there too. We can go there with out Soul and explore. Take in with all the 5 senses the land that be there.

Do we learn every fact we know by finding it out ourselves.....?

I have to wonder if we come with some learnings in us. Like a blue print that is there for what the path of our Soul is here to learn or to maybe complete or expand upon. If it be true OUR Soul is placed in us and that we CHOOSE our parents then might we well have a path in mind of learnings and exploration we want to work on of follow more along.

In many ways YES we find things out ourselves as it the Brain in us that lets us hold those facts. What hold the knowlege is deeper that is the Soul. We learn a fact and its fleeting as memory and brain funciton can fail us.

Lynn[/quote]

You've responded to my simple examples in a highly obtuse way, Lynn - and wholly out of context with the opening paragraph.... No mention of that.

Mine was a very simple proposition...

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by mac

"If we have to be every form we know on earth before taking on a human form,....." We don't.

We learn from our direct experiences, we learn vicariously from other members of our soul group and in many other ways.

Mac,

''We'' you say, well I don't know if I agree with you or not.

It would be an absurdity to suggest that each individual soul/spirit has to experience everything there is, to be every form there might be, to be able to progress spiritually.

According to eastern reincarnation teachings, we have to be every living being before we become human. It may sound preposterous, but on the other hand, why are there so many forms?

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

Mac,

''We'' you say, well I don't know if I agree with you or not.

According to eastern reincarnation teachings, we have to be every living being before we become human. It may sound preposterous, but on the other hand, why are there so many forms?

That's fine if you're not sure but personal doubt does not change actuality.

Eastern reincarnation teachings are jumbled, archaic, confused and confusing. It's sad those notions have escaped and often now are found in the New Age movement, something I see in the postings of many contributors.

As to why there are so many forms, well why does that question have any relevance to reincarnation? The world was created for the occupation of us individuals as a means of furthering our spiritual progression. Some will experience one thing, one form, one way of life - others will experience other forms, other ways of life etc.

None loses out by not experiencing exactly the same as their companions, all the forms and lives they may have had - vicarious learning from soul group companions 'fills the voids' so to speak, each learning the lessons of their companions as they return, regroup and eventually later perhaps preparing for further experiences for as long as each feels to be desirable for themselves....

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by mac

That's fine if you're not sure but personal doubt does not change actuality.

Hi Mac,

So you're basically saying me doubting it doesn't change the truth of your belief?
No human knows the ultimate truth, no matter how hard people here try to. There's a whole world out there with millions of living forms, countless galaxies and so forth.
We should remain modest, something that's often lacking in religious/spiritual communities.

Eastern reincarnation teachings are jumbled, archaic, confused and confusing. It's sad those notions have escaped and often now are found in the New Age movement, something I see in the postings of many contributors.

Yes, that's true. Many of their beliefs can also be debunked and are just a result of their own cultural upbringing.

As to why there are so many forms, well why does that question have any relevance to reincarnation? The world was created for the occupation of us individuals as a means of furthering our spiritual progression. Some will experience one thing, one form, one way of life - others will experience other forms, other ways of life etc.

If there's reincarnation, then there are reasons for all these forms to exist. Yes, I think it matters. ''furthering our spiritual progression'' , what for?

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

Hi Mac,

So you're basically saying me doubting it doesn't change the truth of your belief?
No human knows the ultimate truth, no matter how hard people here try to. There's a whole world out there with millions of living forms, countless galaxies and so forth.
We should remain modest, something that's often lacking in religious/spiritual communities.
Yes, that's true. Many of their beliefs can also be debunked and are just a result of their own cultural upbringing.
If there's reincarnation, then there are reasons for all these forms to exist. Yes, I think it matters. ''furthering our spiritual progression'' , what for?

"Change the truth of a belief" - oxymoron? And, NO, that's not what I wrote, that's not what I was saying - please look again at my words.

A belief is a belief - it may or may not be true - that's why I don't have any - if I don't know something, don't understand it, I won't hold a belief about it as a substitute - doesn't work for me....

Personal truths do not exist - only personal perspectives of truth, the 'big picture'. Your doubts don't change anything other than your perspective, your understanding.... If you fervently believed the moon was made of green cheese, would it make the moon be made of green cheese? Silly but I think you'll see my point?

You're right that no-one knows the whole truth, the whole picture, but ignorance of that doesn't change what actually is...

"Furthering our own spiritual progression - what for?" Wow have you got a few hours for a teach-in? If you don't follow what that's all about, I'm very sorry but this is not the place to go into it. It's a subject of its own but the issues of individual spiritual progression and reincarnation go hand in hand.

Again you misrepresented what I said when you say "Yes, I think it matters." But if you re-read my words, nowhere did I suggest that it doesn't matter....

We all have our own understanding of our own personal truth, gained by learning, experiencing and journeying. We should all go with our own truths, they are right for us and may not be right for others but we shouldn't let clouds of human doubt make us stray from our own pathway. We can stay on the straight and narrow and still listen to others, explore other beliefs and philosophies, gain through other's learnings and teachings, but we should always only take on board what feels right to us, what helps us to understand our own journey. When in doubt meditate, talk to your guardian angel and your doorkeeper,and above all talk to the Source.

God Bless

Blessings

grazier

Originally Posted by grazier

We all have our own understanding of our own personal truth, gained by learning, experiencing and journeying. We should all go with our own truths, they are right for us and may not be right for others but we shouldn't let clouds of human doubt make us stray from our own pathway. We can stay on the straight and narrow and still listen to others, explore other beliefs and philosophies, gain through other's learnings and teachings, but we should always only take on board what feels right to us, what helps us to understand our own journey. When in doubt meditate, talk to your guardian angel and your doorkeeper,and above all talk to the Source.

God Bless

Blessings

grazier

No, grazier, you too are wrong on 'personal truth' - it does not exist. That which is true is true. No matter what you may claim viz. "We all have our own understanding of our own personal truth, gained by learning, experiencing and journeying." The words are simply wrong.

May I rephrase? "We all have our own understanding of, our own perspective on, the truth, however limited or comprehensive that may be. It is gained by learning, experiencing and journeying." I could have no objection whatsoever to that.Of course we should accept only that which does not offend our reason.That's what you have said above - absolutely no argument with that.But we should not simply go with 'own truths' until they have been tested and found not wanting. Then they are no longer 'own truths' - they are a part of 'the truth'.May I suggest that we consider many views, many teachings, but we do not have our own truths unless they are universal - that is they apply to all people, all situations, all places (within the universe we know) That's what 'the truth' is. Invariable no matter who tests it....

Less than that is not 'the truth', not a 'personal truth' but simply our comprehension of what we have learned from what we have experienced and/or learned.

Originally Posted by mac

No, grazier, you too are wrong on 'personal truth' - it does not exist. That which is true is true. No matter what you may claim viz. "We all have our own understanding of our own personal truth, gained by learning, experiencing and journeying." The words are simply wrong.

May I rephrase? "We all have our own understanding of, our own perspective on, the truth, however limited or comprehensive that may be. It is gained by learning, experiencing and journeying." I could have no objection whatsoever to that.Of course we should accept only that which does not offend our reason.That's what you have said above - absolutely no argument with that.But we should not simply go with 'own truths' until they have been tested and found not wanting. Then they are no longer 'own truths' - they are a part of 'the truth'.May I suggest that we consider many views, many teachings, but we do not have our own truths unless they are universal - that is they apply to all people, all situations, all places (within the universe we know) That's what 'the truth' is. Invariable no matter who tests it....

Less than that is not 'the truth', not a 'personal truth' but simply our comprehension of what we have learned from what we have experienced and/or learned.

Hello Mac,

While I agree with what you are saying, I still say that we have our own truth, perceived by what we have received in the way of learning from others, from our own experiences and the guidance we have been given by our teachers in the World of Light. Our own truth is what we accept and judge to be an enhancement of what we already know - a progression and expansion of our own spiritual journey.

Everyone's journey is different and everyones personal truth, knowledge and understanding is different because everyone's purpose, goal and experience is different.

Just as a baby learns that if it touches a hot object it feels pain, that that object burns - that is the babies own personal truth gained from experience. An older person would handle the hot object with suitable protection because they have learned, either by watching others being burned, or by being told that hot objects burn, or by its own experience of being burned (its own personal truth - heat burns).

That is what I am talking about.

Ones own personal truth may go completely opposite to anothers view, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong or that it is not true for that person, it is just different!

Blessings

grazier

Originally Posted by grazier

Hello Mac,

While I agree with what you are saying, I still say that we have our own truth, perceived by what we have received in the way of learning from others, from our own experiences and the guidance we have been given by our teachers in the World of Light. Our own truth is what we accept and judge to be an enhancement of what we already know - a progression and expansion of our own spiritual journey.

Everyone's journey is different and everyones personal truth, knowledge and understanding is different because everyone's purpose, goal and experience is different.

Just as a baby learns that if it touches a hot object it feels pain, that that object burns - that is the babies own personal truth gained from experience. An older person would handle the hot object with suitable protection because they have learned, either by watching others being burned, or by being told that hot objects burn, or by its own experience of being burned (its own personal truth - heat burns).

That is what I am talking about.

Ones own personal truth may go completely opposite to anothers view, but that doesn't mean that it is wrong or that it is not true for that person, it is just different!

Blessings

grazier

Twist my words as much as you choose. What is true is true. What is not is not.

If something feels hot, it is hot to the one who feels it. That's purely down to individual sensitivity. But long enough, hot enough, and we all will burn our skin and flesh. That's true - no gradation.

There are no gradations of the truth, only personal perspectives and understandings....