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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Paganism

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  #61  
Old 29-06-2012, 10:58 AM
she who plays
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I understand that I AM is apparently all encompassing. BUT it is my concern that the term I AM grew out of an imbalance in the first place. I know what I AM is *supposed* to mean, but the term originated from masculine dominance IMO.

Sure the Goddess is I AM. Sure masculine and feminine are equal. BUT when one experiences the Goddess all conceptions of I AM fade into obscurity.

My point is that God came to be known as I AM because of an imbalance. Take away that imbalance and God becomes known as a nameless being.

You're trying to describe an absolute non-dual state. In such a state both the experiencer and the experienced meld and dissolve into one. No matter how you try to describe absolute non-duality, it cannot actually be described.

In certain Tantric traditions, the non-dual state is called the the maha mudra, or great orgasm. It's possible to experience it very physically in this lifetime, while living. But all the traditions have names for it..Kundalini..etc. 'Death' is also non-dual state. Sleep is similar.

We have to live with words though. We can either live dualistically, or in what I call the relative non-dual state. The former is confusion, the latter is living with duality of form and mind while being aware that all is one. 'I AM' dissolves the mental-emotional conditioning of duality and ego.
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  #62  
Old 29-06-2012, 12:20 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: God's House
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Hi,

Duality just is. I'm not sure if total non-dual states are possible. Duality is a fact of life and the only thing that can be done is to get used to it or enjoy it.

God accepts duality and unifies it with everything else. But it is still within Him/Her.

That is my understanding at the moment.
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The Humility, the Pride and the Humiliation.
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  #63  
Old 29-06-2012, 12:49 PM
she who plays
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Well that's basically what I just said. But nevermind.

And total liberation is possible. How do you think all those Masters become Masters..? It's not from reading wikipedia.
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  #64  
Old 29-06-2012, 06:09 PM
LadyTerra
Posts: n/a
 
Greetings Everyone:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neville

Do you think?

Hell hath no fury and all that... Don't fall into that old stereotype... Anyhoo . your opinion is respected and I'll leave that one alone... because I find myself still needing to be convinced that the goddess cannot be or rather is not capable of being I AM.... Discrimination I tell ya, where is the equality here...

Know yourself... The female elements along with the male elements reside within you, Born of both Mother and Father, how much more convincing of I AM does one need to be? It's in your DNA innit..

God and Goddess are composite parts of I AM...


One for you ladies....When you draw down the Moon (If you practice such a thing in your ritual) where do you draw it down to..? Why , Into the Womb ofcourse, ergo incorporating the goddess into the self through ceremony.. Trying to bring the Goddess into I AM Irrespective of the self evidential statement that your are the fruit of both x and y loins.

I really should not find myself stating the obvious..

I blame the Romans really...

Mithras = No Women Allowed ...
Vesta = No Men Allowed.....

Anyhow returning briefly back to the opening quotation.



Err.... That would actually be the instinct of self preservation which is totally genderless.

So Black Widow's and Blue Beard's, Feminism is as bad as Chauvinism or Mysogeny... I am not wordy enough to know the difference..

I'll say it how I see it, The Goddess is Sacred, but neither more or less Sacred than God... Hows that for a bit of flag waving for equality

Lest the imbalance ensues.


I love you Neville--it's been a while.

I have a lot of the God in me--in fact--I have often been accused of being Gay--because I am so strong, stubborn, and fiercely independent!

I honor the Masculine Divine at the (8) Sabbats of the Wheel--but (in my Tradition) females worship the Goddess and males worship the God--
it depends on the direction in which your own inclinations and energies tend to lean toward.

I follow the Nordic/Green path as a practicing Solitary--not as a Wiccan--
nothing wrong w/ worshiping the Androgynous Divine--
SheWhoPlays. You most likely have a well-balanced mixture
of both the Feminine and Masculine Divine energies within--
so it is only natural that you would want to embrace them both.

However--I have to agree w/ Honza on this point--
most Religions that refer to the "I am" are referring to the God.

Peace and Love on the path to forming and embracing your own opinions...

Blessed be...
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  #65  
Old 29-06-2012, 07:23 PM
she who plays
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyTerra
I love you Neville--it's been a while.

I have a lot of the God in me--in fact--I have often been accused of being Gay--because I am so strong, stubborn, and fiercely independent!

I honor the Masculine Divine at the (8) Sabbats of the Wheel--but (in my Tradition) females worship the Goddess and males worship the God--
it depends on the direction in which your own inclinations and energies tend to lean toward.

I follow the Nordic/Green path as a practicing Solitary--not as a Wiccan--
nothing wrong w/ worshiping the Androgynous Divine--
SheWhoPlays. You most likely have a well-balanced mixture
of both the Feminine and Masculine Divine energies within--
so it is only natural that you would want to embrace them both.

However--I have to agree w/ Honza on this point--
most Religions that refer to the "I am" are referring to the God.

Peace and Love on the path to forming and embracing your own opinions...

Blessed be...

I think that's because 'I AM' is associated with Moses and the Patriarches and the 10 commandments. It was apparently a conversation between God and Moses. Though I don't really understand who 'God' is in that context... that word means different things in different traditions. Personally, I see the term 'God' as having no gender to it. Many Pagans though associate masculinity to it (Though in a more erotic way). Not exactly sure what the contemporary Christian perspective is... probably still the father.
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  #66  
Old 02-07-2012, 06:20 PM
LadyTerra
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by she who plays
I think that's because 'I AM' is associated with Moses and the Patriarches and the 10 commandments. It was apparently a conversation between God and Moses. Though I don't really understand who 'God' is in that context... that word means different things in different traditions. Personally, I see the term 'God' as having no gender to it. Many Pagans though associate masculinity to it (Though in a more erotic way). Not exactly sure what the contemporary Christian perspective is... probably still the father.



I'm not too clear on the meaning of "contemporary Christians"--
but mainstream Christians embrace only the Masculine Deity.

However--there are other Patriarchal Religions.

I have always found it interesting that my first cognitive encounter w/ the Goddess occured when I was studying the Kabbalah.

Peace and Love upon you journey to discovering your own truths...

Blessed be...
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  #67  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:06 PM
she who plays
Posts: n/a
 
I have updated my thinking on this subject. I now see that by having any kind of dual relationship status; a simplistic 'mine and yours' concept, that one half of that duality will always be subordinated (It is not equal). It seems that in general Pagan spirituality, the god is subordinate to the goddess, or appears to be given a lesser role. In Christianity it was the reverse.

Part of the confusion orbits around my firm belief that the male identity must find itself in the female, and is essentially not distinct from the female. This makes it appear that one is subordinating the god, either consciously or subconsciously. But the truth is that, what I am saying at least, is that the divine feminine is in essence genderless; it is simply spacious and open like the womb, and contains all of life. The masculine is never in opposition to the feminine; it is absorbed in it, it is swimming in it. Furthermore, the masculine literally is the feminine, and vice versa.. because there is no ultimate heirarchy if the feminine transgresses gender opposites. Now, the other confusing bit. I make a distinction between man-woman, and feminine-masculine. The former is more biological, and the latter is broader and more psychological. I believe that both men and women need to find the divine feminine in themselves to be a complete identity, because the feminine is 'otherness'. Women are not necessarily in touch with that, because they are a woman. Consequently, some men are more in touch with their feminine side than women! But even as I say 'feminine', ultimately, I mean a totally free entity that consciously accepts the ALL.

Personally I think that a distinct god and goddess relationship, where each identity is static (i.e. god = this, goddess = that) will always in some form be unequal.
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