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Old 23-02-2017, 04:39 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Originally Posted by God-Like
What I was suggesting was that it is an equally worthy experience talking their talk as it is walking their walk .

One eventually finds that just the talking gets them nowhere other than projecting something different from what one truly feels / perceives in reflection of themselves and everyone / thing else .

If someone believes that all is one and there is no individual 'you' but carries on living their life as if there is an individual 'you' then something is seriously amiss .

I am not saying getting to the point of walking the walk is easy, it will take as long as it takes, but when it comes to the point of walking the walk it is no effort at all .

The effort can be getting to the point . For myself, it seems that there is an effort to hold a delusional self reflection . Holding a pretence takes an effort to hold whereas being true to yourself is expressed quite naturally without effort . .

x daz x

Hey there Daz and thanks for your thoughts.
I agree about walking and talking. And I agree that holding onto something that lacks authenticity on all levels would be more exhausting for ME. Or for YOU. But I'm not sure that's true of everyone. It seems to me that it's more the inertia principle. Making a change requires a lot of effort for most folks, even when it's to drop what is not true to your core self. Even when it's been staring you in the face and you know it's right for you.

Also, what we are at the mo is certainly not always true to centre. At the mo, we may be angry or bitter or predatory or addicted, etc. And thus it'll be quite easy to reflect that without effort. But is that who we are at core, or is that who and what we are resting in to avoid the mirror?

For example...Look at the cultural male addictions to casual sex and porn, reinforced at every turn and then promoted as "good". Do you think that is or will be easy for most blokes to overcome, even when they know it's not who they are at core?

Or do you think that's who most blokes really are at core, cads who enjoy predatory behaviour, exploiting others for sex, or being addicted beyond all clarity and reason to ways that dehumanise others? Of course not...these are misaligned behaviours but whilst a man is deep in them, they are very easily maintained whilst changing them is hard. Because of the authenticity and presence that is required to live in one's centre. And to view others from that same place.

Do you think it will require a lot of ongoing effort for maybe quite a long time to live there with more or less ease and stability...and to get beyond the predatory desperation and behavior of the addict? Perhaps for you, junk food, exploitation and addiction doesn't cut it and never did -- but for others, they live on these in the main and always have done. This is what they were shown and this is what society still tells them is normal, even "good"...as twisted and tragic as that may be. When everything you "know" is false and harmful, how difficult is it to cut ties completely and chart an entirely new course that's not yet been even mapped, even when that IS the ONLY way forward in love and truth? Same is true of the individual soul.

Change is hard...and it matters not if it's "good" or right-aligned...because change, just like authenticity, requires courage and fearlessness and an almost ruthless level of honesty and vulnerability, or it doesn't take. That's why we say true sight, navigational sight, is dependent on the heart...and on the faith and grace and love that the heart holds in the face of the unknown (change) over the known (inertia).

Over the span of eternity, folks all generally figure out that walking or talking in circles goes nowhere new. Including saying there is only One = Me and you are illusory (narcissism). Or saying there is only One = me and you but we are illusory and only the One is real. So...that equation is completely negated, as even the One would not exist by that reckoning (nihilism). Both of those are false, IMO and thus they are dead ends by any deeper reckoning, agreed.

But I'm also saying that that's a hell of a lot of detritus, static, trauma, mud, pain and misdirection that we're spewing out over the span of eternity, and that there are direct and indirect effects for the rest of existence. None of which we can judge or deem "ok" or "acceptable" for the rest of existence. Nor can we go further and say our stuff is "good" even, and it's "meant to be". Hahahaha

Yet somehow I see an implicit justification of what is in so much of the general spiritual discussion, instead of a simple ownership of our co-creation that makes no judgments about how good it is for anyone else but US. And even that judgment is dubious if it labels misdirection as good and right...LOL. Perhaps it was necessary in hindsight...and again, maybe or maybe not. How can we say that with any certainty? All we CAN say, with honesty, is that we were blind then but now we see. Or that then we saw only through a glass darkly, but now we see more truly. And that yes, we likely did great harm to self AND others whilst blind or ignorant. And that yes, we forgive and seek forgiveness...we love and accept, whilst respectfully also offering these gifts to others. We acknowledge the interbeing and worth of all, equally to ourselves. Who may in turn choose and do as they will.

Ownership acknowledges that our choices may very well be not in the highest good of the rest of existence (nor even ourselves) is a lot more honest...as who are we to say, you know? Ownership that we may have spent a lot of time in misdirection, even including consciously chosen misdirection, is also a lot more honest, IMO.

Because...inertia and addiction. And because change is hard when we're not already in alignment. Maintaining is easy, whether good or bad. Whether it's who you really are, or not. But as I see it, change, like honesty and vulnerability, is very, very hard. For all of us, each in our own way

Peace & blessings Dazzer
And thanks for listening to my thoughts, in advance.
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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