I really do not know what to believe in

Belief is personal to the individual and how they see fit to place it in their life. As long as you live a good life and thank god for it, there's not much else to worry of. In times of personal distress find a quiet place and ask the Angels to protect you with love

[inspirit]

Maybe your problem is that you're approaching it the wrong way. You're trying to attack the problem with logic when you should be approaching God in earnest prayer and asking Him whether he exists (or not). Hint: he does

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."

Originally Posted by jlhbr100

I ws raised Christian (Catholic specifically), but for years now I've been unable to unable to make up my mind for more than several months at a time whether I'm Christian (Methodist, at the moment, specifically) or an agnostic atheist.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, but I've been questioning how exactly that adds up with the Bible and is actually correct. I also think that strongly thinking the universe and humans existing without a divine purpose is nonsense doesn't make that true. Even as a young Christian, "everything's so pretty/complex" was less of proof of god and more of a very subjective opinion. The universe is billions of years old. That's plenty of time for nature to work itself out to what we see now. I've also known for a while that people don't think there's proof of the Israelites ever being in Egypt and I looked up that again and that view seems plausibly supported. (But then again, there's also a lot of people who swear up and down Jesus never existed and also try to give historical reasoning for this position)

The best I reasoning I have to be a Christian is a possible first cause argument, me thinking that if there was a god, the one described in the Bible makes the most sense, and perceived personal proof. But I am uneasy with believing in religion without much scientific defense among my belief. Also, I can't disregard the fact that the god of the Bible might make sense to me just because I was raised to think Christianity was true.

I don't know what to believe and I'm frustrated at this point. Can anyone give me their thoughts on this please? Thanks in advance.

[starnight1]

Originally Posted by jlhbr100

I ws raised Christian (Catholic specifically), but for years now I've been unable to unable to make up my mind for more than several months at a time whether I'm Christian (Methodist, at the moment, specifically) or an agnostic atheist.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, but I've been questioning how exactly that adds up with the Bible and is actually correct. I also think that strongly thinking the universe and humans existing without a divine purpose is nonsense doesn't make that true. Even as a young Christian, "everything's so pretty/complex" was less of proof of god and more of a very subjective opinion. The universe is billions of years old. That's plenty of time for nature to work itself out to what we see now. I've also known for a while that people don't think there's proof of the Israelites ever being in Egypt and I looked up that again and that view seems plausibly supported. (But then again, there's also a lot of people who swear up and down Jesus never existed and also try to give historical reasoning for this position)

The best I reasoning I have to be a Christian is a possible first cause argument, me thinking that if there was a god, the one described in the Bible makes the most sense, and perceived personal proof. But I am uneasy with believing in religion without much scientific defense among my belief. Also, I can't disregard the fact that the god of the Bible might make sense to me just because I was raised to think Christianity was true.

I don't know what to believe and I'm frustrated at this point. Can anyone give me their thoughts on this please? Thanks in advance.

I v been there....disappointed by the teachings from church,disapointed by the reasoning fm my own.
I felt lost and those r dark years for the soul.

If u follow your heart as a seeker on this journey, the heart will lead u to the truth one step after another.
There r true believers and they have true proof in their own life and that faith is real.
There r false believers they just follow the church but they dont really understand or have any proof in their hearts.

Science can be a very good guide to the truth,too.
Science, religion/philosophy r one family.
Don't limit your heart and mind, keep exploring the unlimited universe.
u r not alone, me and many others r on the same seeking road....

[DoctorStrange]

Originally Posted by jlhbr100

I ws raised Christian (Catholic specifically), but for years now I've been unable to unable to make up my mind for more than several months at a time whether I'm Christian (Methodist, at the moment, specifically) or an agnostic atheist.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, but I've been questioning how exactly that adds up with the Bible and is actually correct. I also think that strongly thinking the universe and humans existing without a divine purpose is nonsense doesn't make that true. Even as a young Christian, "everything's so pretty/complex" was less of proof of god and more of a very subjective opinion. The universe is billions of years old. That's plenty of time for nature to work itself out to what we see now. I've also known for a while that people don't think there's proof of the Israelites ever being in Egypt and I looked up that again and that view seems plausibly supported. (But then again, there's also a lot of people who swear up and down Jesus never existed and also try to give historical reasoning for this position)

The best I reasoning I have to be a Christian is a possible first cause argument, me thinking that if there was a god, the one described in the Bible makes the most sense, and perceived personal proof. But I am uneasy with believing in religion without much scientific defense among my belief. Also, I can't disregard the fact that the god of the Bible might make sense to me just because I was raised to think Christianity was true.

I don't know what to believe and I'm frustrated at this point. Can anyone give me their thoughts on this please? Thanks in advance.

Build a foundation through a philosophy that you might identify with. Buddhism and Taoism are excellent because they concentrate on being good to your fellow man, and at the same time embracing spirituality.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by DoctorStrange

Build a foundation through a philosophy that you might identify with. Buddhism and Taoism are excellent because they concentrate on being good to your fellow man, and at the same time embracing spirituality.

I agree, but be careful with these as well. There are two distinct ways in which we can experience our lives; one is based on our natural rhythms of existence and experience, while the other is primarily semantic.

The natural way is based on natural observation/survival, and has roots that go deep into our ancestral heritage (going back millions of years). While the other is thought-based, where we tend to compare concepts in relation to other concepts. We can build entire cultures and cores of self-related-beliefs based strictly on a semantic-interpretation-of-reality molded primarily out of thoughts alone. Entire religions can be, and usually are, built on ideas stacked on top of ideas.

It's a good bet that most everyone we know, along with ourselves, have been conditioned to relate to life via a stream of semantic based assumptions and interactions. We generally live inside a bubble of words. Our next great adventure will likely surround the remembering of our natural natures. I've come to know this as relating directly without the need to overly define.

If we start hop scotching from one philosophy to another we will be applying the semantic version of ourselves to these newer adventures as well. We will likely change the way we "think" about things but still be doing so in a way that keeps us somewhat aloof from the experience of direct participation.

Now I'm a big fan of learning everything we can about everything that feels worth knowing. The list of such things only grows over time as we realize the diversity that's exposed through the bright spotlight of applied curiosity. But don't overly anchor to such knowledge. Use such things as a means of reflection, but leave your base experience of "identity" free and open to new patterns of intimate relating as they emerge.

You want your evolution of awareness to be a full body, feeling and thinking experience. Anything short of this will leave us flopping about blindly still, but with new batches of thought taking the place of old batches of thinking, leaving us to feel like we're progressing, when we're not.

[Interuniversalism]

Originally Posted by jlhbr100

I ws raised Christian (Catholic specifically), but for years now I've been unable to unable to make up my mind for more than several months at a time whether I'm Christian (Methodist, at the moment, specifically) or an agnostic atheist.

I used to believe in theistic evolution, but I've been questioning how exactly that adds up with the Bible and is actually correct. I also think that strongly thinking the universe and humans existing without a divine purpose is nonsense doesn't make that true. Even as a young Christian, "everything's so pretty/complex" was less of proof of god and more of a very subjective opinion. The universe is billions of years old. That's plenty of time for nature to work itself out to what we see now. I've also known for a while that people don't think there's proof of the Israelites ever being in Egypt and I looked up that again and that view seems plausibly supported. (But then again, there's also a lot of people who swear up and down Jesus never existed and also try to give historical reasoning for this position)

The best I reasoning I have to be a Christian is a possible first cause argument, me thinking that if there was a god, the one described in the Bible makes the most sense, and perceived personal proof. But I am uneasy with believing in religion without much scientific defense among my belief. Also, I can't disregard the fact that the god of the Bible might make sense to me just because I was raised to think Christianity was true.

I don't know what to believe and I'm frustrated at this point. Can anyone give me their thoughts on this please? Thanks in advance.

Your doubt is the engine to search for the truth if you use it correctly. Some people waste their time and energy on the surface without diving deep into the truth behind God words. I don't bother even to prove someone that even Jesus existed or not. It just does not matter so if science for example proved he didnt, it won't effect my belief.
Let me put it this way. The real job of any religion is to help you learn about something that exists but cannot be explained directly by words and reasoning. Reasoning is on step of logic. There things that you get prove of their existence from step of love.
If you search physics you find that the smallest particles that make our world do so by vibration or dance. Dancing needs a music which is the intelligence behind it. And instrument which is the rules (some like to call that angels with wings) and who is playing it? You tell me.
But remember logic and love are both sides of one coin.
Words are like lanterns. Don't stick to them. Look at what they shed light on. Use them to light up the path Religion is a journy. Would you rather settle around the words and stories or start moving on? The true meaning of the stories is what matters most.
Real belief comes after you experience presence of God even for a split of a second. When you realise God loves you and that you are special and unique.
All other things are just tools, even the religion itself. Because as human we are bond to time and space and we need tools first to awaken and moblize our spirit which is made of something other than physical mater.

[Clear Blue Sky]

You are thinking beautiful thoughts.

What you believe is what you believe. Be honest with yourself and your thoughts. It is a struggle and a journey, but if you want to come before God, come before honestly.

If God is sentient responsive --> Ask. Be open to the true answer.

Also, (and I do say also and I want you to consider what I wrote above and what others before wrote before you zip into this) also.... right now your mind is sorting through a pile of hand-me-down inherited notions and mental constructs and you are trying to sort them into either/or piles and pronounce judgments standing over them to find which one has it right.

I was there once. I asked God. I got some wondrous answers. humor, humility, audacity, bravery, honesty, open-mindedness, compassion, self-reflection, contemplation, and go-in-blind-to-observe-the-experience-it-will-fall-into-place-and-make-sense-later all played vital supporting roles in that journey.

[organic born]

Originally Posted by Clear Blue Sky

also.... right now your mind is sorting through a pile of hand-me-down inherited notions and mental constructs and you are trying to sort them into either/or piles and pronounce judgments standing over them to find which one has it right.
.

This may sound odd, but I've reached the conclusion that the best approach to understanding the mental constructs that we've been conditioned into, is to continually be starting from scratch. Assume that we "don't know" and be okay with that. Become fresh to each moment in the way that a child looks at everything anew. We can certainly study and derive passing conclusions, but then, doing so in such a away that we're not binding our imagination and thus limiting our observational flexibility.

Few beliefs can form and take root for very long under this warming light of such introspection. The breeze of curiosity remains continually fresh and the organic soil of participation more easily turned. :)

[lemex]

Originally Posted by organic born

This may sound odd, but I've reached the conclusion that the best approach to understanding the mental constructs that we've been conditioned into, is to continually be starting from scratch. Assume that we "don't know" and be okay with that. Become fresh to each moment in the way that a child looks at everything anew. We can certainly study and derive passing conclusions, but then, doing so in such a away that we're not binding our imagination and thus limiting our observational flexibility.

Few beliefs can form and take root for very long under this warming light of such introspection. The breeze of curiosity remains continually fresh and the organic soil of participation more easily turned. :)

So important a thing said that it can't be believed.

This goes back thousands of years of repetition, are we even aware of it, generations will require their religion this way. Imagine that. The religion is thousands of years old and because we don't remember and are born with a fresh mind, it will be new. For me what helps is study of the religion culture itself, we are taught ideas thousands of years old and we don't even know it impacts us. Maybe commercials on tv do impact buying habits. Take a teacher, they cannot teach something opposite or they;ll get kicked out of religion training. I may even go to school many years to learn this stuff and in fact must answer everything a certain way or one has not learned. I'd say observe and have the willingness to study. Sometimes I think you have to go with your gut here. Also wanted to point out the consciousness behind it. All entities are that which fights to survive. On cannot go around changing ideas, it means it's death and so their is a bit of survival of itself. Here's the question, can some different things be seen relevant and tangible.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by organic born

This may sound odd, but I've reached the conclusion that the best approach to understanding the mental constructs that we've been conditioned into, is to continually be starting from scratch. Assume that we "don't know" and be okay with that. Become fresh to each moment in the way that a child looks at everything anew. We can certainly study and derive passing conclusions, but then, doing so in such a away that we're not binding our imagination and thus limiting our observational flexibility.

Few beliefs can form and take root for very long under this warming light of such introspection. The breeze of curiosity remains continually fresh and the organic soil of participation more easily turned. :)

you make it sound so nice!
i resonate to the idea of "starting from scratch", it feels like a natural
state for me (it's my baseline, everyday). i've used it as a way to chastise
myself (far too frequently), by focusing on ways that it's disadvantageous.
it's pleasant to see someone appreciative of this vantage point.
thanks