Lankavatara Sutra Study

[jonesboy]

This thread is for discussion of the Lankavatara Sutra. We will attempt to have sort of a "book club" discussion format.

You can find the sutra here http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm

I will take portions from each chapter for discussion. Anyone is free to add from the relevant chapter to add to the discussion.

Chapter 1:

Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are given up to discrimination and the wise are not?

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realize that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.


Any thoughts?

[naturesflow]

Cool I like this idea.
I will be back when I have enjoyed the movies with my two little male friends..:)

[naturesflow]

I am not really sure how to relate this, it is registering, but I cant quite find words to put down in response, you might start the process Jonesboy? It may allow me to see how you see this and open my own seeing in another way..to respond.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This thread is for discussion of the Lankavatara Sutra. We will attempt to have sort of a "book club" discussion format.

You can find the sutra here http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm

I will take portions from each chapter for discussion. Anyone is free to add from the relevant chapter to add to the discussion.

Chapter 1:

Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are given up to discrimination and the wise are not?

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realize that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.


Any thoughts?

At the point that human are creators or originally creators. This message a statement even the writer of the sutra can't prove it, that's guesswork.

When we say about Creator, it means he can create life and not only creating ideas or imagination. Human confused the idea of Creator, it's because all Gods are not creators. Only Creator can create life. So are Buddhas are not the creators. So how can the writer confident to convince other what he wrote is right.

We can't say human are folly again he is ego to give that statement. Human are evolved to a higher beings. Can we say, Gods are folly because they're not Creator. Only Creator can say so and he will not say so to human.

It's like the rich can make more money so he's rich, but he can't say the poorer is folly. The rich have other thing they're unable to do say, he's sick then the rich must be must be folly also.

That's this sutra is not perfectly written but with a lot of misleading false information. And the angle of pointing facts is void and is from human (ability) point of view not the whole truth.

There's a Chinese idiom: to believe books (quote) totally is better not to believe any book (quote) 尽信书不如无书。

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This thread is for discussion of the Lankavatara Sutra. We will attempt to have sort of a "book club" discussion format.

You can find the sutra here http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm

I will take portions from each chapter for discussion. Anyone is free to add from the relevant chapter to add to the discussion.

Chapter 1:

Then said Mahamati to the Blessed One: Why is it that the ignorant are given up to discrimination and the wise are not?

The Blessed One replied: it is because the ignorant cling to names, signs and ideas; as their minds move along these channels they feed on multiplicities of objects and fall into the notion of an ego-soul and what belongs to it; they make discriminations of good and bad among appearances and cling to the agreeable. As they thus cling there is a reversion to ignorance, and karma born of greed, anger and folly, is accumulated. As the accumulation of karma goes on they become imprisoned in a cocoon of discrimination and are thenceforth unable to free themselves from the round of birth and death.

Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya, like the reflection of the moon in water, that there is no self-substance to be imagined as an ego-soul and its belongings, and that all their definite ideas rise from their false discriminations of what exists only as it is seen of the mind itself. They do not realize that things have nothing to do with qualify and qualifying, nor with the course of birth, abiding and destruction, and instead they assert that they are born of a creator, of time, of atoms, of some celestial spirit. It is because the ignorant are given up to discrimination that they move along with the stream of appearances, but it is not so with the wise.


Any thoughts?

The question is asking why do people discriminate or judge?

This question is the heart of the Lankavatara sutra...

From the beginning of Chapter 1.

"In this world whose nature is like a dream, there is place for praise and blame, but in the ultimate Reality of Dharmakaya which is far beyond the senses and the discriminating mind, what is there to praise? O Thou most Wise!"

The second part of the post we can see that the Buddha is already separating himself from Hinduism and the various other religions by saying there is no creator. That there is no soul made up of things, no such thing as time.

Any thoughts?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The question is asking why do people discriminate or judge?

In my case, and it took me 50 years or so to see this: Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya.

No point re-wording something that already explains it perfectly.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Baile

In my case, and it took me 50 years or so to see this: Because of folly they do not understand that all things are like Maya.

No point re-wording something that already explains it perfectly.

Welcome back Baile, where have you been? Forum without you is too quiet, innit?

If everything is Maya then for what purpose the monk practice Buddhism why you believe reincarnation. It's a conclusion of a Chinese idiom:see flower in a mist 雾里看花. No clear view or no enough knowledge. .....

[sky]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

Welcome back Baile, where have you been? Forum without you is too quiet, innit?

If everything is Maya then for what purpose the monk practice Buddhism why you believe reincarnation. It's a conclusion of a Chinese idiom:see flower in a mist 雾里看花. No clear view or no enough knowledge. .....

I love your idiomas Jeremy

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

The question is asking why do people discriminate or judge?

This question is the heart of the Lankavatara sutra...

From the beginning of Chapter 1.

"In this world whose nature is like a dream, there is place for praise and blame, but in the ultimate Reality of Dharmakaya which is far beyond the senses and the discriminating mind, what is there to praise? O Thou most Wise!"

The second part of the post we can see that the Buddha is already separating himself from Hinduism and the various other religions by saying there is no creator. That there is no soul made up of things, no such thing as time.

Any thoughts?

If you're person have a hazy idea of thing then it's like seeing flowers in a mist. Nothing you can provide either from sutra or by your own thinking which can't be right. As I said, these are human viewpoint not the whole/universal truth.

It's simple just ask you a question : do you believe there's Buddha in spirit/God form. And if you answer is no then why there are temples that people go and pray for Buddha's help and since everything is Maya?

You give an answer that lead astray.

All religions followers believe they religions founders are up somewhere in the sky/universe. I can see their existence. And I can touch them with my spirit hand. Or I can touch my Cupid son with my human hand.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by sky123

I love your idiomas Jeremy

People didn't see ,it doesn't mean none of their existence. And they never reached up to that high can't say that high is the highest. Sutra are written by human and they are not Gods . Even they're God maybe haven't any chance to know there's a creator. All third line Gods never meet Creator. And they don't know where they're from.