The Secret Chamber of the Heart in the Torah?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Since the poster posted on Judaism, I assumed they were asking about kabbalah from within Judaism.

It's not that you can't read about authentic love in expression from other masters or other traditions, nor of kabbalah or the secret chambers of the heart. It's just that the illumination is different...because of the inherent quality of what is differs in this aspect from here to there. Because -- for lack of a better way to describe it -- of the consciousness inherent in the being(s) who transmitted them. Rendering a different picture of the truth.

Does that make sense?
Not that the truth isn't accessible everywhere, but perhaps it is more fully presented or illuminated in some pictures versus others. Which may touch some more deeply, or which may matter more to some than others.

Sorry I missed coming back to this thread. Regarding your comments, I will put off replying because I'm unclear what you are getting at here. What are the different "illuminations" you're speaking of and comparing? Or do you just mean sticking with Judaism symbolism only? I'm unclear as I said.

[7luminaries]

Baile, hello there!
Yeshua's (Jesus's) message was not new. Most of his day understood the minimum directive to do unto others. In a sense, his call to take this to the level of authentic love, actively desiring and seeking the highest good of others and oneself, was also not new. Prophets and teachers (rabbis) have always called us to authentic love and social justice. There are hundreds if not thousands in the Jewish tradition alone, and in other traditions, where we get "the message" in some fashion.

What distinguished Jesus was the purity of his message and the level of authentic love and consciousness it contains. This goes hand-in-hand with the purity and integrity of his alignment with spirit. This comprises the energy and the illumination that attaches to his message -- which I am trying to describe (rather poorly). This may allow his message to illuminate the soul and penetrate more deeply than the same message experienced or received a thousand other ways.

If we want to look at objective measures of the purity and integrity of his alignment with spirit, it's like measuring rainfall...it's a measure, but it falls short of the totality of the experience of nourishing the earth and its denizens (grand word, that). That said, I have always admired his practical, grounded, compassionate, and very progressive interpretation of the law and traditions of his day. How so?

It has taken us about 20 centuries to even begin to approach the egalitarianism he both embodied and advocated in his day-to-day life (words & deeds) regarding women and other social minorities, and about 18 or 19 centuries to begin to do so regarding class. Not just with tolerance and sufferance, but with authentic love, with compassion, and (ye gads) with true respect for women, for other minorities, and for the poor as both fully human and as equals in every substantive way (in Spirit, under the law, and in each of our hearts and minds). And that was just to get started sorting things...by no means are we there even now. These are simple measures (so to speak) of the depth and purity of his integrity and right-aligment with centre.

Kabbalah shows us the map of the heart and the way to our centre and to Spirit from a heart-led perspective. It is all about the secret chamber(s) of the heart and a deeper, heart-led knowing of the ineffable mysteries of self, Spirit, and others. The degree to which the mysteries of the secret chamber are wrapped or vested in authentic love...or are centred in authentic love...or ultimately simply are authentic love...has more to do with where one is on the path.

The illumination of what that means for you in the most intimate and personal sense is so particularly rich and deep in traditional kabbalah. The mind is brought into service to heart with a fire and a depth of love that I have experienced nowhere else. I have seen no other full immersion experience that approaches the degree of illumination, the love and tenderness, and the immediacy and intimacy of kabbalah. You feel the truth of what is revealed, you sense and experience it personally, and you literally see and hear it within and without. Spirit is not out there...you find your connection to yourself, to spirit, centred within the secret chamber...and the revelation gives new awareness. It's not only that all is divine...it's not only that you are connected to all, plain as day. It's the ease of divining sentience on all levels and communicating with all. I would also call it the way of the healer or the shaman. But for many, it's simpy just the most powerful, immediate and intimate way to Spirit and to the heart-led consciousness.

It's not that you can't get the same message from a thousand other places...you can. It's just that the fire of illumination burns so purely and with such strength that it can touch the soul particularly deeply and in a way that is more deeply, immediately, and continually transformative. And BTW it's the fire and purity of traditional kabbalah that also illuminates the teachings of Yeshua, or Jesus. (I am not a christian, btw, but neither was Jesus. And no offense is intended there.)

Peace & blessings
7L

[Baile]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

What distinguished Jesus was the purity of his message and the level of authentic love and consciousness it contains. This goes hand-in-hand with the purity and integrity of his alignment with spirit.

I don't agree with the Christ-oriented take that Jesus and his message was something unique to human evolution. There are two billion Muslims in the world. Their teacher is just as distinguished as Christianity's teacher. Some aspects of Jesus' message were unique and particular to its time, yes. But that's naturally the case with the messages of all the great teachers, before and since. Nor do I see any of the great teachings as social-political messages having to do with addressing inequality issues. The occult-oriented understanding is what I focus on with all spiritual stories and mythologies. In this case, Jesus the self-realized human being, revealing the personal self-realization path as the means by which the human being achieves unity relationship with Creation. All the religions and occult philosophies of the past teach this fundamental mystery wisdom. And they all teach it a bit differently and use their own unique imagery to communicate this same message: The great "soul-centric secret" of the human enlightenment path has to do with transforming lower-self egoic behavior and intellectual thinking, into higher-self intuitive wisdom via awakened consciousness. Which some paths identify as opening of the heart chakra. Myself, I simply call it the inner self-development and experiential wisdom journey.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Baile

I don't agree with the Christ-oriented take that Jesus and his message was something unique to human evolution. There are two billion Muslims in the world. Their teacher is just as distinguished as Christianity's teacher. Some aspects of Jesus' message were unique and particular to its time, yes. But that's naturally the case with the messages of all the great teachers, before and since. Nor do I see any of the great teachings as social-political messages having to do with addressing inequality issues. The occult-oriented understanding is what I focus on with all spiritual stories and mythologies. In this case, Jesus the self-realized human being, revealing the personal self-realization path as the means by which the human being achieves unity relationship with Creation. All the religions and occult philosophies of the past teach this fundamental mystery wisdom. And they all teach it a bit differently and use their own unique imagery to communicate this same message: The great "soul-centric secret" of the human enlightenment path has to do with transforming lower-self egoic behavior and intellectual thinking, into higher-self intuitive wisdom via awakened consciousness. Which some paths identify as opening of the heart chakra. Myself, I simply call it the inner self-development and experiential wisdom journey.

Baile, hello there...per the bolded, let me refer directly to my above post...at the risk, once again, of repeating myself (apologies).

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Yeshua's (Jesus's) message was not new. Most of his day understood the minimum directive to do unto others. In a sense, his call to take this to the level of authentic love, actively desiring and seeking the highest good of others and oneself, was also not new. Prophets and teachers (rabbis) have always called us to authentic love and social justice.

There are hundreds if not thousands in the Jewish tradition alone, and in other traditions, where we get "the message" in some fashion.

What distinguished Jesus was the purity of his message and the level of authentic love and consciousness it contains. This goes hand-in-hand with the purity and integrity of his alignment with spirit. This comprises the energy and the illumination that attaches to his message -- which I am trying to describe (rather poorly). This may allow his message to illuminate the soul and penetrate more deeply than the same message experienced or received a thousand other ways.

I think I already addressed all your points and we largely agree Though you say we disagree. Perhaps you can re-read my response and see if that's actually the case.

The message is purer and deeper via certain channels, is all I'm saying.
I've read the Koran in many translations and there are only a few passages that speak to me in the universal sense. IMO the channel is shallow, as in not deep and thus could not penetrate me deeply.

However if you disregard the majority or even the entirety of the Koran as it is interpreted in mainstream Islam and simply focus on the mysticism of the sacred heart, then you can call yourself a Sufi -- and who doesn't appreciate the mystics of any tradition? Even when the mainstream tradition is oppressive or crusty. Sufis are not considered Muslims by much of mainstream Islam and arguably we may likewise say they are simply their own mystical tradition.

Most traditions and great teachers of Buddhism are deep but are often dry and crusty (lol...I mean that in the best possible way), and thus can penetrate very deeply in some areas but not as deeply in all areas, speaking for myself. Taoism is broad and deep...Taoism is more balanced but the path is long and measured...the esoteric wisdom is incremental, if powerful. As to the sacred chamber in Kabbalah, in context of its own tradition like all others I've mentioned -- it is, like the Tao, the most concentrated and most powerful, but the channel has no limits because the transmission is so direct (illumination).

It should come as no surprise that it is these two traditions that are most powerful in healing and energy work, IMO and that of many others -- along with shamanic traditions worldwide for guidance and spirit contact.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[django]

Thanks for your input 7L, I thoroughly agree with your post above, having looked into all these paths myself - I just had never looked into kabbalah before, but I like the sound of it, and I'll have to get reading :)

[7luminaries]

Django...all the best on your journey and happy trails to you I'm sure you'll uncover at least a few nuggets.
As with Taoism the path is initially also very deep and incremental as you broaden and strengthen the channels...
past the tipping point, you fill your own river and you make your own firewater, as the Native shamans say.

Peace & blessings
7L