What Things Are Real?

Originally Posted by Iamit

[color="DarkRed"][b][indent]

Talking only about the maniestation of difference in which everything arises. There is nowhere else for anything to arise including the concept All is One. So I ask the question in that context only, in which there are seekers seeking.

Yes, and this is where the contradiction would seem to arise. In the full experience of all being one or oneness, there is nothing else to seek as there is full awareness that all is already within.

However, perhaps all is not lost while one is in the experience of duality. There is a state of mind that I manifest in which I have some level of realization that “all is one”, and that “all is me”. I think of it as a state of Samadi, but I hesitate to say that as I fear using that word will trigger a wave of objections from my orthodox buddhist friends. Jumping over the arguments about what that word really means, to me it is a state of mind where I am aware that everything in my experience is really my own consciousness, and everything is perfect just as it is. It is as if I am looking into a mirror in which everything in it is my own reflection. The word Samadi is sort of a hypnotic trigger word for me that allows me to enter this state. In this state, nothing needs judging, nothing needs to be understood, nothing needs doing, everything is perfect just as it is and everything can just be. I am in that present moment, and not seeking anything. I detach from the world and just watch the cars go by without really thinking about any of it, just sitting in a quiet state of mind and allowing it all to permeate and reverberate through my awareness. It is a wonderful and peaceful and restful state of mind, perhaps some would call it blissful.

"What I like best in the whole world is Me and Piglet going to see You, and You saying 'What about a little something?' and Me saying, 'Well, I shouldn't mind a little something, should you, Piglet,' and it being a hummy sort of day outside, and birds singing."
"I like that too," said Christopher Robin, "but what I like doing best is Nothing.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I spend the majority of my time immersed in the river of life, navigating rapids, swimming against the currents, trying to avoid being drowned. This state of mind is sort of like climbing out of the river and up to the top of a high bank and just watching the river go by and marveling at the whole thing, realizing that I am in fact creating the whole thing, the entire landscape, including the river, is made up of me.

I don’t know if there is any way for me to tell you how to get into a similar state. I have found that certain elements are important. One must accept that everything is perfect as it is, even the perceived imperfections are in fact perfect and necessary in the present moment of awareness. Nothing needs to be or should be judged, everything is just to be experienced directly. Put the gavel aside for the time being and just be content with being. Realize that though one may be drawing information from the quantum wave function to create this reality, one is using that information to manifest every thing one is experiencing within themselves. It is all really one's own reality composed of one’s own consciousness, a world of pure imagination. I suppose all three of those require a certain amount of faith, as although I believe science can point to them, it does not prove them, and may never have that power. I have a faith that the quantum wave function resides within the greater mind of God, wherein also lies the only true realized state of all as one. The individual I, as an individual, cannot hold such an awareness as in that individualized state it is only a part of that all. Yet perhaps it can surrender itself into that realization that it is not truly separate, stop seeking and just immerse itself in the realization that all is God, I am within God, everything I create is therefore also being created by God, all of it is real and all of it is perfect just as it is.

“By the time it came to the edge of the Forest, the stream had grown up, so that it was almost a river, and, being grown-up, it did not run and jump and sparkle along as it used to do when it was younger, but moved more slowly. For it knew now where it was going, and it said to itself, “There is no hurry. We shall get there some day.” But all the little streams higher up in the Forest went this way and that, quickly, eagerly, having so much to find out before it was too late.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I don’t expect that such a state of mind is the fully realized experience of “All is One” you are seeking, but it is nevertheless a good stand in, and anyway, I like it. Inevitably, someone or something comes along and bounces me back into the river and on I go with my ride through the rapids and currents of life. Perhaps the one advantage of this state of mind I have described is that I can, even in my battles with the currents, remember that this state of mind is there and I can get back to it with a single word.

“How did you fall in, Eeyore?" asked Rabbit, as he dried him with Piglet's handkerchief.
"I didn't," said Eeyore.
"But how--"
"I was BOUNCED," said Eeyore.
"Oo," said Roo excitedly, "did somebody push you?"
"Somebody BOUNCED me. I was just thinking by the side of the river--thinking, if any of you know what that means--when I received a loud BOUNCE."
"Oh, Eeyore!" said everybody.
"Are you sure you didn't slip?" asked Rabbit wisely.
"Of course I slipped. If you're standing on the slippery bank of a river, and somebody BOUNCES you loudly from behind, you slip. What did you think I did?”
….
“I didn't bounce, I coughed," said Tigger crossly.
"Bouncy or coffy, it's all the same at the bottom of the river.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

[Iamit]

[quote=ketzer]Yes, and this is where the contradiction would seem to arise. In the full experience of all being one or oneness, there is nothing else to seek as there is full awareness that all is already within.

However, perhaps all is not lost while one is in the experience of duality. There is a state of mind that I manifest in which I have some level of realization that “all is one”, and that “all is me”. I think of it as a state of Samadi, but I hesitate to say that as I fear using that word will trigger a wave of objections from my orthodox buddhist friends. Jumping over the arguments about what that word really means, to me it is a state of mind where I am aware that everything in my experience is really my own consciousness, and everything is perfect just as it is. It is as if I am looking into a mirror in which everything in it is my own reflection. The word Samadi is sort of a hypnotic trigger word for me that allows me to enter this state. In this state, nothing needs judging, nothing needs to be understood, nothing needs doing, everything is perfect just as it is and everything can just be. I am in that present moment, and not seeking anything. I detach from the world and just watch the cars go by without really thinking about any of it, just sitting in a quiet state of mind and allowing it all to permeate and reverberate through my awareness. It is a wonderful and peaceful and restful state of mind, perhaps some would call it blissful.

"What I like best in the whole world is Me and Piglet going to see You, and You saying 'What about a little something?' and Me saying, 'Well, I shouldn't mind a little something, should you, Piglet,' and it being a hummy sort of day outside, and birds singing."
"I like that too," said Christopher Robin, "but what I like doing best is Nothing.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I spend the majority of my time immersed in the river of life, navigating rapids, swimming against the currents, trying to avoid being drowned. This state of mind is sort of like climbing out of the river and up to the top of a high bank and just watching the river go by and marveling at the whole thing, realizing that I am in fact creating the whole thing, the entire landscape, including the river, is made up of me.

I don’t know if there is any way for me to tell you how to get into a similar state. I have found that certain elements are important. One must accept that everything is perfect as it is, even the perceived imperfections are in fact perfect and necessary in the present moment of awareness. Nothing needs to be or should be judged, everything is just to be experienced directly. Put the gavel aside for the time being and just be content with being. Realize that though one may be drawing information from the quantum wave function to create this reality, one is using that information to manifest every thing one is experiencing within themselves. It is all really one's own reality composed of one’s own consciousness, a world of pure imagination. I suppose all three of those require a certain amount of faith, as although I believe science can point to them, it does not prove them, and may never have that power. I have a faith that the quantum wave function resides within the greater mind of God, wherein also lies the only true realized state of all as one. The individual I, as an individual, cannot hold such an awareness as in that individualized state it is only a part of that all. Yet perhaps it can surrender itself into that realization that it is not truly separate, stop seeking and just immerse itself in the realization that all is God, I am within God, everything I create is therefore also being created by God, all of it is real and all of it is perfect just as it is.

“By the time it came to the edge of the Forest, the stream had grown up, so that it was almost a river, and, being grown-up, it did not run and jump and sparkle along as it used to do when it was younger, but moved more slowly. For it knew now where it was going, and it said to itself, “There is no hurry. We shall get there some day.” But all the little streams higher up in the Forest went this way and that, quickly, eagerly, having so much to find out before it was too late.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I don’t expect that such a state of mind is the fully realized experience of “All is One” you are seeking, but it is nevertheless a good stand in, and anyway, I like it. Inevitably, someone or something comes along and bounces me back into the river and on I go with my ride through the rapids and currents of life. Perhaps the one advantage of this state of mind I have described is that I can, even in my battles with the currents, remember that this state of mind is there and I can get back to it with a single word.

“How did you fall in, Eeyore?" asked Rabbit, as he dried him with Piglet's handkerchief.
"I didn't," said Eeyore.
"But how--"
"I was BOUNCED," said Eeyore.
"Oo," said Roo excitedly, "did somebody push you?"
"Somebody BOUNCED me. I was just thinking by the side of the river--thinking, if any of you know what that means--when I received a loud BOUNCE."
"Oh, Eeyore!" said everybody.
"Are you sure you didn't slip?" asked Rabbit wisely.
"Of course I slipped. If you're standing on the slippery bank of a river, and somebody BOUNCES you loudly from behind, you slip. What did you think I did?”
….
“I didn't bounce, I coughed," said Tigger crossly.
"Bouncy or coffy, it's all the same at the bottom of the river.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

[/

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Yes, and this is where the contradiction would seem to arise. In the full experience of all being one or oneness, there is nothing else to seek as there is full awareness that all is already within.

However, perhaps all is not lost while one is in the experience of duality. There is a state of mind that I manifest in which I have some level of realization that “all is one”, and that “all is me”. I think of it as a state of Samadi, but I hesitate to say that as I fear using that word will trigger a wave of objections from my orthodox buddhist friends. Jumping over the arguments about what that word really means, to me it is a state of mind where I am aware that everything in my experience is really my own consciousness, and everything is perfect just as it is. It is as if I am looking into a mirror in which everything in it is my own reflection. The word Samadi is sort of a hypnotic trigger word for me that allows me to enter this state. In this state, nothing needs judging, nothing needs to be understood, nothing needs doing, everything is perfect just as it is and everything can just be. I am in that present moment, and not seeking anything. I detach from the world and just watch the cars go by without really thinking about any of it, just sitting in a quiet state of mind and allowing it all to permeate and reverberate through my awareness. It is a wonderful and peaceful and restful state of mind, perhaps some would call it blissful.

It seems that your resonance descriptions apply in the sense that all that manifests has a vibration at varying frequencies, as we know from our experience that different people, buildings, and things feel different to us.

"What I like best in the whole world is Me and Piglet going to see You, and You saying 'What about a little something?' and Me saying, 'Well, I shouldn't mind a little something, should you, Piglet,' and it being a hummy sort of day outside, and birds singing."
"I like that too," said Christopher Robin, "but what I like doing best is Nothing.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I spend the majority of my time immersed in the river of life, navigating rapids, swimming against the currents, trying to avoid being drowned. This state of mind is sort of like climbing out of the river and up to the top of a high bank and just watching the river go by and marveling at the whole thing, realizing that I am in fact creating the whole thing, the entire landscape, including the river, is made up of me.

I don’t know if there is any way for me to tell you how to get into a similar state. I have found that certain elements are important. One must accept that everything is perfect as it is, even the perceived imperfections are in fact perfect and necessary in the present moment of awareness. Nothing needs to be or should be judged, everything is just to be experienced directly. Put the gavel aside for the time being and just be content with being. Realize that though one may be drawing information from the quantum wave function to create this reality, one is using that information to manifest every thing one is experiencing within themselves. It is all really one's own reality composed of one’s own consciousness, a world of pure imagination. I suppose all three of those require a certain amount of faith, as although I believe science can point to them, it does not prove them, and may never have that power. I have a faith that the quantum wave function resides within the greater mind of God, wherein also lies the only true realized state of all as one. The individual I, as an individual, cannot hold such an awareness as in that individualized state it is only a part of that all. Yet perhaps it can surrender itself into that realization that it is not truly separate, stop seeking and just immerse itself in the realization that all is God, I am within God, everything I create is therefore also being created by God, all of it is real and all of it is perfect just as it is.

“By the time it came to the edge of the Forest, the stream had grown up, so that it was almost a river, and, being grown-up, it did not run and jump and sparkle along as it used to do when it was younger, but moved more slowly. For it knew now where it was going, and it said to itself, “There is no hurry. We shall get there some day.” But all the little streams higher up in the Forest went this way and that, quickly, eagerly, having so much to find out before it was too late.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

I don’t expect that such a state of mind is the fully realized experience of “All is One” you are seeking, but it is nevertheless a good stand in, and anyway, I like it. Inevitably, someone or something comes along and bounces me back into the river and on I go with my ride through the rapids and currents of life. Perhaps the one advantage of this state of mind I have described is that I can, even in my battles with the currents, remember that this state of mind is there and I can get back to it with a single word.

“How did you fall in, Eeyore?" asked Rabbit, as he dried him with Piglet's handkerchief.
"I didn't," said Eeyore.
"But how--"
"I was BOUNCED," said Eeyore.
"Oo," said Roo excitedly, "did somebody push you?"
"Somebody BOUNCED me. I was just thinking by the side of the river--thinking, if any of you know what that means--when I received a loud BOUNCE."
"Oh, Eeyore!" said everybody.
"Are you sure you didn't slip?" asked Rabbit wisely.
"Of course I slipped. If you're standing on the slippery bank of a river, and somebody BOUNCES you loudly from behind, you slip. What did you think I did?”
….
“I didn't bounce, I coughed," said Tigger crossly.
"Bouncy or coffy, it's all the same at the bottom of the river.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

When you are not in the blissful state you describe you are no less connected to Oneness that when you are in that blissful state, for in the nonduality story Oneness is already completely all states. So what state one is in makes no difference in terms of connection to Oneness which is always totally all states. So for a long time I have not been a seeker of a state of total connection to Oneness (which was my only concern) because that is unavoidable. It is blissful only in the sense of profound relief that the search for connection is over, that complete connection is unavoidable no matter what state one may be in. Hence there is absolutely no need to change from one state to another by any change including following a path or practise. One would be no more connected to Oneness if successful by such paths and practises, than one was before.

It matters not whether resonance is by the mind, because the mind is simply Oneness minding, so no more or less completely connected than any other way realization might be said to occur.o

Your resonance descriptions may only apply in the sense of accepting that all that manifests has a vibration at varying frequencies. We know this from our experience of different people, buildings, and things often feeling different to us.

Originally Posted by Iamit

When you are not in the blissful state you describe you are no less connected to Oneness that when you are in that blissful state, for in the nonduality story Oneness is already completely all states. So what state one is in makes no difference in terms of connection to Oneness which is always totally all states. So for a long time I have not been a seeker of a state of total connection to Oneness (which was my only concern) because that is unavoidable. It is blissful only in the sense of profound relief that the search for connection is over, that complete connection is unavoidable no matter what state one may be in. Hence there is absolutely no need to change from one state to another by any change including following a path or practise. One would be no more connected to Oneness if successful by such paths and practises, than one was before.

Your resonance descriptions may only apply in the sense of accepting that all that manifests has a vibration at varying frequencies. We know this from our experience of different people, buildings, and things often feeling different to us.

Perhaps, but that has not been my experience. If no state of mind were necessary, then nobody would be seeking it as they would already be experiencing it. I would think that at the very least, the state of awareness of one's mind must be changed. Perhaps even into that no-mind state if one wishes to experience true oneness, but then that one is not there anymore, or at least their mind is not there to be aware of it.

Yes, everything is one, but "I" am not always holding this state in my awareness as I create and play with the myriad forms. Then there is both object and subject, and they are perceived as separate, even when there is knowledge that they are not, there still is the perception of them as separate things. There is the concept and knowledge of oneness, and there is the state of immersing oneself in that knowledge and letting go, but all of this is still dualistic, and that is not wrong or bad IMO. In the true experience of non-dualism I would expect that there is nothing to discuss as all is fully perceived as one. There is no separate subject and objects. This I expect is why the Tao Te Ching calls it a mystery, as the mind cannot grasp it in experience, only in abstract concept.

One may not need to follow a path or practice, nor seek anything. However, I do find that there is a difference in holding the knowledge of the oneness of all things in one's dualistic state of mind vs expanding one's awareness to a state where all those objects become perceived as part of the subject, as part of me. Not, I expect, a full experience of oneness where those objects disappear and are 'fully integrated', but perhaps a bit closer??? IDK. "I", doesn’t know this, nor I expect, can it. Even if one had experienced true oneness, I don't expect any conveyance of that experience could be produced by, or understood by, a mind in a state of awareness of separation.

Anyway, arguing about states of mind and individual experiences of them is somewhat useless as nobody can know or judge what the other experienced. Many here will talk about how they have achieved oneness, awakening, or enlightenment, but what another hears when they say such things is a different matter. All one can do, even if they feel they have achieved similar or the same, is to smile and say that sounds rather nice.

As far as those vibrations go, I would reverse that language. What manifests is a consequence of which frequencies within the quantum field resonate within the individuals 'field of consciousness'. In other words, things do not manifest then create vibrations, the vibrations cause the particular manifestation within the individuals ‘field of consciousness’. Like a radio, you tune your receiver to a particular frequency/cies carrying a particular station, and a particular reality resonates within you and comes to life. These are the things that are real for you, and anyone else tuning into that same channel.

P.S. It's more of a CB radio as information can move both ways. Consciousness Band.

Me thinks.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Perhaps, but that has not been my experience. If no state of mind were necessary, then nobody would be seeking it as they would already be experiencing it. I would think that at the very least, the state of awareness of one's mind must be changed. Perhaps even into that no-mind state if one wishes to experience true oneness, but then that one is not there anymore, or at least their mind is not there to be aware of it.

Yes, everything is one, but "I" am not always holding this state in my awareness as I create and play with the myriad forms. Then there is both object and subject, and they are perceived as separate, even when there is knowledge that they are not, there still is the perception of them as separate things. There is the concept and knowledge of oneness, and there is the state of immersing oneself in that knowledge and letting go, but all of this is still dualistic, and that is not wrong or bad IMO. In the true experience of non-dualism I would expect that there is nothing to discuss as all is fully perceived as one. There is no separate subject and objects. This I expect is why the Tao Te Ching calls it a mystery, as the mind cannot grasp it in experience, only in abstract concept.

One may not need to follow a path or practice, nor seek anything. However, I do find that there is a difference in holding the knowledge of the oneness of all things in one's dualistic state of mind vs expanding one's awareness to a state where all those objects become perceived as part of the subject, as part of me. Not, I expect, a full experience of oneness where those objects disappear and are 'fully integrated', but perhaps a bit closer??? IDK. "I", doesn’t know this, nor I expect, can it. Even if one had experienced true oneness, I don't expect any conveyance of that experience could be produced by, or understood by, a mind in a state of awareness of separation.

Anyway, arguing about states of mind and individual experiences of them is somewhat useless as nobody can know or judge what the other experienced. Many here will talk about how they have achieved oneness, awakening, or enlightenment, but what another hears when they say such things is a different matter. All one can do, even if they feel they have achieved similar or the same, is to smile and say that sounds rather nice.

As far as those vibrations go, I would reverse that language. What manifests is a consequence of which frequencies within the quantum field resonate within the individuals 'field of consciousness'. In other words, things do not manifest then create vibrations, the vibrations cause the particular manifestation within the individuals ‘field of consciousness’. Like a radio, you tune your receiver to a particular frequency/cies carrying a particular station, and a particular reality resonates within you and comes to life. These are the things that are real for you, and anyone else tuning into that same channel.

P.S. It's more of a CB radio as information can move both ways. Consciousness Band.

Me thinks.

Understood and familiar, thanks:)