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[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Just curious, which Tradition are you referring to?

I was thinking of Pureland but I admit I need to read up more.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Ideas are well and good, a pleasurable place to spend one's time. They are also comfortable like an old blanket we love. They are us in a sense. Well worn paths we like to walk on and be with. But one can be aware of how ideas divide one from another, create conflict between me and them. It may be a brave thing to say, wait, if my ideas are creating conflict why don't I have none?

It's like a strong willed and highly opinionated atheist and christian sitting down to dinner. Is the conversation nice and kind and loving or combative? They both have strong ideas and beliefs and opinions. But these only create conflict if they "go there." If they choose to make ideas they carry a part of the content of the now. Our attention and awareness decides what is focused on in any given moment.

When we say, "this is true to me" we are creating something in the now that did not exist until we created it. The brain throws up thoughts all the time but up to us if we make them a part of now or not. The reality is now and what we are creating in it, creating out of what is inside and outside us, and to me, that is all spiritual paths. To make now love. Peace.

When we are talking about a specific thing for instance water. We can all agree if you jump in the ocean you are going to get wet. You can directly experience it, everyone can.

Buddhism teaches the same thing with the practices. It is only an idea to those who have never been in water or meditated.

[Gem]

I should dwell, if it's not too tedious, on the first point: there is suffering.

As I mentioned earlier, the philosophical method in Buddhism is see if such a teaching is true of yourself. You see it as it is in the way that it is experienced by you, and know it as: "this is suffering".

At first you don't see the cause because you have not watched yourself creating it. It is insufficient for me to say 'craving' is cause because there is no knowing of 'what is craving'. It is necessary for you to investigate the ways in which you generate suffering for yourself. Get to the bottom of it and know: "this is how suffering is caused".

Before I leap ahead, I have to harp a little on morality because it sets the foundation for the right path. The path is 'right' in two senses. First it is morally right, so general good-will and considerate conduct is appropriate. Secondly it is way of truthful self-awareness (google 8 food path for info). You will find that being self-aware enables morality and keeps you on the 'right' path. If the mind becomes distracted by the noise of the thread, no problem, at some stage you'll notice that and simply resume from there.

I can't say more lest I becoming long winded, so I shall let the discussion be its own investigation and reflect the self-awareness by which you understand the topic. With metta.

[jonesboy]

Here is a teaching on the First Noble Truth which Gem is referring to.

Dukkha should be known. The cause by which dukkha comes into play should be known. The diversity in dukkha should be known. The result of dukkha should be known. The cessation of dukkha should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of dukkha should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"Birth is dukkha, aging is dukkha, death is dukkha; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are dukkha; association with what is not loved is dukkha, separation from what is loved is dukkha, not getting what is wanted is dukkha. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are dukkha.

"And what is the cause by which dukkha comes into play? Craving is the cause.

I thought this was important to add from the same teaching.

"And what is the cessation of dukkha? From the cessation of craving is the cessation of dukkha; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of dukkha.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/...ca1/index.html

Also, here is where one can learn about cravings in another teaching which is linked from the above article.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/...ca2/tanha.html

The definition
"There are these three cravings. Which three? Craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming. These are the three cravings."

— Iti 58

An arrow in the heart
"Craving is... an arrow. The poison of ignorance spreads its toxin through desire, passion, & ill will."

— MN 105

Six kinds of craving
"There are these six classes of craving: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for odors, craving for flavors, craving for tangibles, craving for mind-objects."

[Gem]

Just to clarify, the above cut and pasted passage regards all four Noble Truths; not just the first one. I could have cut and pasted the text myself but best you google yourselves if interested so this thread doesn't become a cut and paste dump.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

I'll add a few thoughts that come to me.


An insight into a new way to be here now.

Yes. You'll need to have the attention with the actuality of the experience as it is now including what is going on with yourself.

At peace and without conflict within and without.

It's more likely that people will be conflicted, and if so, it is to know that. That's the 1st truth: "this is suffering".

A recognition of the negative (conflict creating) nature of the "manufactured personal self." An awareness or understanding of how to be here now liberated from a particular part of our content.

On a closer investigation one could surpass the first truth and come to the second truth: "this is how suffering is being caused".

To me, people have very different karma and circumstances. One should never compare themselves to somebody else

Absolutely.

or judge someone else.

Yes. No value judgments toward anything whatsoever.

We project what we are in that particular moment. It is what it is. People find a thing of value to them and tell others about it. What one person values another may not. What is a value to one won't be a value to another. Ultimately, we are the creators of how we experience whatever we are experiencing. We create a perception out of inner and outer realities. Up to us what we make out of what is given and present in any particular moment.

I'm not sure if that's applicable in anyone's life.

People generally seek happiness and love. When they find conflict and un-happiness, that's when awareness kicks in as they seek ways to end the suffering. But even here, what is "suffering" to one may not be to another.

What we are calling 'suffering' here is the same for everyone insofar as the cause is the same for everyone. Granted these terms 'suffering', 'craving' are quite meaningless if we manufacture definitions, and it is necessary to see it of oneself to understand the topic.

Some are very happy with their egos. It takes a lot of time and lives for one to start to get into the more subtle parts of ourselves and to become aware of what is possible in a given moment as far as choosing a different perception and relationship with inner and outer content.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Just to clarify, the above cut and pasted passage regards all four Noble Truths; not just the first one. I could have cut and pasted the text myself but best you google yourselves if interested so this thread doesn't become a cut and paste dump.

It is a direct teaching on the First Noble Truth per the title of the text.

Not everyone knows where or what to search for.

There has been a lot of discussions about pain and suffering. If one can move past it or clear such obstructions.

You even mentioned that you didn't know the causes of cravings. The second link went into detail on that topic.

Things you just skimmed over.

So is this a thread on Gem's Buddhist philosophy or???

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

It is a direct teaching on the First Noble Truth per the title of the text.

Not everyone knows where or what to search for.

There has been a lot of discussions about pain and suffering. If one can move past it or clear such obstructions.

You even mentioned that you didn't know the causes of cravings. The second link went into detail on that topic.

Things you just skimmed over.

So is this a thread on Gem's Buddhist philosophy or???

You can always trust Accesstoinsight for reliable Buddhists Teachings

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

You can always trust Accesstoinsight for reliable Buddhists Teachings

I would agree, reliable Theravada teachings.

[Gem]

I'm only here to discuss the philosophy and the practice, but the practice is more fundamental than the philosophy.

In my posts I stress the attitude of truthfulness and kindness in self-awareness because lessons are learned through self-knowing and insight into the nature of mind and matter. This is not rote, but an appeal to consciousness of your experience as it is. Not my experience, not Buddha's experience, not any other experience; but the actuality of your subjective immediacy.