Krishna Conscious Philosophy

Thanks for that DASA, :)

It's interesting reading!

Do you know how old Krishna consciousness is?

Originally Posted by Poppies

Thanks for that DASA, :)

It's interesting reading!

Do you know how old Krishna consciousness is?

My pleasure, thanks Poppies :-)


Krishna consciousness simply means 'God consciousness' so in that sense it is as old as God Himself. (Krishna is a name of God meaning 'All-Attractive').

In Bhagavad-Gita Krishna says :
"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." BG 2.12

Thus if both Krishna and ourselves have been existing eternally, then it would be impossible to trace out the exact age of our knowledge of Him. We can see that in all the cultures of our world there is some form of God consciousness in existence, with it's roots stretching far back into human history.

From astrological calculation it is said that Krishna spoke the Bhagavad-Gita to Arjuna around 3100 BC, making it approximately 5000 years old. However during the conversation Krishna also mentions the knowledge in the Gita being of far more ancient origins:

"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.

That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science." (BG 4.2-3)

Although based on the ancient knowledge of Bhagavad-Gita, the specific format which the modern 'Hare Krishna' movement now follows was introduced 500 years ago by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (b. 1486). He promoted the method of publically singing God's names in the street : 'Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare' for everyone to hear, regardless of birth, race, caste, religion or qualification.

Thanks Das!

Hope you don't mind all the questions!! I'm enjoying exploring this! :)

So... you say the modern 'Hare Krishna' movement follows the older Bhagavad-Gita format.... in what ways does it differ from that format? What makes it a modern movement of the older format?

Originally Posted by Poppies

Thanks Das!

Hope you don't mind all the questions!! I'm enjoying exploring this! :)

So... you say the modern 'Hare Krishna' movement follows the older Bhagavad-Gita format.... in what ways does it differ from that format? What makes it a modern movement of the older format?

Hi Poppies,

looks like my last answer to this one got lost in the hacking disaster last week.

To sumarise: The Philosophy is the same, but in this age (Kali-Yuga), the emphasis is more on chanting God's names (Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna ...), whereas in the previous age the emphasis was more on diety worship in temples. In the age previous to that is was Vedic rituals & offerings, and before that in the first age of the four (satya-yuga), it was meditation.

The type of process recommended for self-realisation in the Vedas varies according to the current time cycle (yuga).

Hope the boards get back to normal,

Gouranga !!

Das :-)

[jeremy67]

Hello DASA and all the other contributors to this thread, I've found it very interesting reading, as I had no previous knowledge about Krishna Consciousness.

However, there's one point in an early posting, that puzzles me and doesn't quite square with my gut feelings:

Originally Posted by DASA

I say 'human' form of life, because in other forms such as the animal kingdom etc... We do not have the ability to enquire into the Absolute Truth. This is the special benediction of being born in the human species.

I'm not entirely sure that being born as a human as opposed to an animal IS actually a benediction:

- Animals more often than not lead a purer, more selfless life than most humans. Human kind is prone to the basest acts of cruelty, manipulation and deceit the like of which does not exist in the animal kingdom.
- Most people who are spiritually inclined agree that the foundation of a spiritual existence is love. Well, the unquestioning, unfaltering love that can be shown by an animal towards a human very often puts the condition-laden love of human for human to shame.
- Just because humans cannot communcate deeply with animals, it seems rather arrogant to assume that they cannot aspire, and are not aspiring, to attain their own Absolute Truth.
- As a Spiritualist I believe that animals pass into spirit and continue on their path just as humans do.
- Taking the stance that humans are somehow "better" than animals is a very dangerous path indeed. It is the attitude that has led human kind to believe it has a right to treat its home planet in whatever way it pleases, with the result that we're all now living with the appalling environmental catastrophies that the Earth is enduring.

I know there is the argument that mankind has been given free will and so collectively as a species we have chosen to wantonly destroy our planet and generally be horrid to each other, but this in itself suggests that being born human can be rather more of a curse than a benediction.

I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this subject.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Hello Jeremy,

Thankyou for bringing that up - I must apologise for not making what I was saying particularly clear earlier on ... ;-)

In the Bhagavad-Gita Krishna describes that the SAME type of soul is in the body of ALL living beings. Not that the soul in humans is any greater or lesser than the soul inside a plant or animal.

The Vedic scriptures describe how as souls we are reincarnated/re-born into many millions of different bodies throughout time, but while in the bodies of animal and plant species we do not have the chance for philosophical enquiry into the nature of the absolute truth and in those bodies our free-will is highly limited compared to in human life. Thus like you say animals do lead 'purer' more selfless lives than a lot of humans, that's because in human bodies we have a greater capacity for selfish, negative acts, as well as a greater capacity for loving, positive ones. It's potentially a chance to make a lot of progress.

I would definitely not take the stance that humans are better than animals, and as a vegetarian for many years am strongly opposed to societies' mis-treatment of Earth's animal and plant species.

"The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle priest, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater."
Bhagavad-Gita, 5.18

Best Wishes & Hare Krishna,

Your servant,

Das :-)

[jeremy67]

Hello DASA,

Thanks for expanding on your earlier point; that's now a lot clearer, though I'm still doubtful of the reasoning that a soul cannot make any spiritual headway during an animal incarnation. An animal can still experience emotions, recognise and express love, and connect with other souls. Can that not in itself bring a soul closer to the Absolute Truth? I don't really see that spiritual progress is necessarily completely dependent upon philosphical enquiry. By the same token, then, would you say that a small child is incapable of spiritual development because he lacks philosophical intellect?

Love and Light

Jeremy

Originally Posted by jeremy67

Hello DASA,

Thanks for expanding on your earlier point; that's now a lot clearer, though I'm still doubtful of the reasoning that a soul cannot make any spiritual headway during an animal incarnation. An animal can still experience emotions, recognise and express love, and connect with other souls. Can that not in itself bring a soul closer to the Absolute Truth? I don't really see that spiritual progress is necessarily completely dependent upon philosphical enquiry. By the same token, then, would you say that a small child is incapable of spiritual development because he lacks philosophical intellect?

Love and Light

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

I agree - The Vedic scriptures describe that we DO make some progress through animal lives, we gradually 'evolve' through the different species of life back towards human species (or similar). There are even stories of souls within the animal kingdom, such as elephants, crocodiles and dogs acheiving spiritual liberation and beyond. The story of Gajendra the elephant from the Srimad Bhagavatam is probably the most well known. (see excerpt below)

Generally speaking it is said the greatest benediction of this human life is that we have a much greater ability/chance of pursuing a spiritual path if we so desire. There are also tales of children (even within the womb) gaining spiritual enlightenment, but that's more the exception than it is the rule.

===========================================
Srimad Bhagavatam 8.4.1

TRANSLATION:
Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: When the Lord [Vishnu] delivered Gajendra, King of the elephants, all the demigods, sages and Gandharvas [angels], headed by Brahma and Siva, praised this activity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and showered flowers upon both the Lord and Gajendra.

ADDITIONAL:
It is evident from this chapter that great sages like Devala Rishi, Narada Muni and Agastya Muni will sometimes curse someone. The curse of such a personality, however, is in fact a benediction. Both the crocodile, who had been a Gandharva in his previous life, and Gajendra, who had been a king named Indradyumna, were cursed, but both of them benefited. Indradyumna, in his birth as an elephant, attained salvation and became a personal associate of the Lord in Vaikuntha, and the crocodile regained his status as a Gandharva. We find evidence in many places that the curse of a great saint or devotee is not a curse but a benediction.
===========================================

Philosophical enquiry is one aspect of gaining spiritual knowledge, but by no means would I say it was the only one. Krishna gives the following details concerning knowledge in Bhagavad-Gita chapter 13:

Humility; pridelessness; nonviolence; tolerance; simplicity; approaching a bona fide spiritual master; cleanliness; steadiness; self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification; absence of false ego; the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; detachment; freedom from entanglement; even-mindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me; aspiring to live in a solitary place; detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization; and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth -- all these I declare to be knowledge, and besides this whatever there may be is ignorance.

Hope you find the above of interest,

Best Wishes & Hare Krishna,

Das

Today is the 520th anniversary of the birth of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in Bengal, India. He was a famous saintly preacher who began the modern Hare Krishna movement and the public singing of the Hare Krishna mantra:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna,
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare,
Hare Rama Hare Rama,
Rama Rama Hare Hare.

His birth was predicted in certain Vedic scriptures,(Mahabharata & Srimad Bhagavatam) both written at least 1500 years ago. Within the texts Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is described as the the most recent avatar of Krishna in this age, the next one being Kalki who is predicted to appear many thousands of years into the future.

Lord Chaitanya taught that as spirit souls we are part of God and thus we are one with Him in quality, and yet at the same time we are also different from Him in quantity. This is called acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva, inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference. Our constitutional position is, therefore, to serve God with love, and our love for Him can be invoked by chanting His names and cultivating the qualities of tolerance and humility. To awaken our love of God, or Krishna-prema, is life's ultimate goal and will please us to our full satisfaction.

If anyone is interested in finding out more about Sri Chaitanya (also sometimes called Gouranga) please click on the link below or feel free to post any questions here.

http://www.krishna.com/main.php?id=121


Best Wishes,

Das