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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #1  
Old 20-02-2018, 05:13 AM
Nitiananda Nitiananda is offline
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The practice of the six perfections in the Mahayana

The Six Perfection and the Four Dimensionalities are the main practices of the Mahayana aimed at cultivating the bodhichitta action and bodhichitta intentions respectively.
What is the Six Perfection? This is the Giving or Sacrifice, the Observance of the Commandments and the Vows, Patience, Persevering Efforts, Meditation and Wisdom.
Order here is very important, because one follows from the other. If a person does not want to engage in disinterested service and sacrifice, he will not be able to keep the commandments. If a person can not keep the commandments, then his thoughts wander, he is unable to concentrate and will not be able to endure the return of bad karma, not to mention that he has no intention of making utmost efforts to develop meditative abilities.
So, the Paramità of Sacrifice. What is this step needed for? With the help of proper donations, karma is cleared and efforts are directed to become capable of realizing high worlds. And, as already mentioned, there are three main types of sacrifice or giving. The first is the material donations of money and things to a true guru or true teaching; then - the gift of peace of mind, bringing happiness to others; and the third type of sacrifice is the preaching of the True Law (Dharma) in order to spread it.
When you can easily keep the commandments, thanks to a persistent and consistent practice, your karma will be washed away, willpower will become stronger, and the ability to patience will appear during a long meditative practice. This is the third Paramita - the strengthening of the will, the perfection of patience. Then, on the basis of what has already been achieved, it is necessary to conduct in full force the practice, which has a form. And this will be the perfection of Persevering Effort. And at the stage when this state is reached, they pass to the fifth process, that is, they begin to persevere in meditation aimed directly at achievement. This is the fifth Paramita - the perfection of meditation. In fact, all the Paramitas become truly Paramitam, only when perfection is achieved in the latter - the Paramita of Wisdom. And if after the first achievements of the state of Wisdom cultivate it constantly, then in the end the Truth is achieved. This is the teaching of Mahayana Buddhism. And this way of practice is called the Sixth Perfection.
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  #2  
Old 20-02-2018, 05:52 AM
Eelco
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I see the 6 perfection or rather the 5 spiritual faculties (faith, wisdom, concentration, energy and mindfulnes) as a whole that is developed together. they balance each other and slowly but surely each grows stronger by cultivating them in equal proportion.

As for the precepts.. They are originally meant as trainings. Which means you can slip up until you realize and experience that they are helpful on the path to liberation. I don't think they were ever meant to be taken at face value as commandments.

Sacrifice is something that is a result from these praises.
As for vows. Well to vow to undertake the training of keeping a precept is a vow, but leaves room to try again if you for whatever reason slip up.

I have to agree that a living master can be very valuable and speed up your progress.
But in this day and age is not absolutely necessary. People have been know to find what the buddha talked about with little guidance. That is not to say that teachers don't have tremendous value if you're serious about walking the path...

With Love
Eelco
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  #3  
Old 20-02-2018, 07:32 AM
Nitiananda Nitiananda is offline
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The practice of the six perfections and the five faculties are completely different things.
Initially, the Buddha preached the teachings of Hinayana .. This is what you were talking about. This is the southern branch of Buddhism (Theravada). But at the end of his life he began preaching the teachings of a higher level to his close disciples.
The content of this sermon is reflected in the Agam Sutra. He told his aching disciples in the Hinayana that the nirvana that they achieved by the practice of calming the mind is very unstable and can be easily destroyed. And in order to achieve the perfect Maha of Nirvana, it is absolutely necessary to save the living beings. Rebirth is both bodhisattva and to recycle the karma of living beings.
This is the reason that many lamas and those who have attained are reborn for the sake of salvation, many lives.
It is impossible to cultivate true love and compassion in oneself by attaining the initial stages of liberation. Raja of yoga and kundalini. These yogis are weak and do not allow you to recycle the karma of people. And in order to achieve higher liberation, great merits are needed which can only be accumulated in the practice of salvation.
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  #4  
Old 20-02-2018, 02:03 PM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitiananda
The practice of the six perfections and the five faculties are completely different things.

Yes they are..
I was mistaken..

With Love
Eelco
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  #5  
Old 20-02-2018, 03:13 PM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitiananda
These yogis are weak and do not allow you to recycle the karma of people. And in order to achieve higher liberation

Liberation comes from piercing the 4 noble truths..
Compassion or even a desire to walk a boddhisattva path are choices one makes.
For some liberation is just enough.. That doesn't make them weak, just different.

I believe even Gautama Buddha needed some divine interventions to start teaching.

WIth Love
Eelco
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  #6  
Old 21-02-2018, 01:14 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
I see the 6 perfection or rather the 5 spiritual faculties (faith, wisdom, concentration, energy and mindfulnes) as a whole that is developed together. they balance each other and slowly but surely each grows stronger by cultivating them in equal proportion.

As for the precepts.. They are originally meant as trainings. Which means you can slip up until you realize and experience that they are helpful on the path to liberation. I don't think they were ever meant to be taken at face value as commandments.

Sacrifice is something that is a result from these praises.
As for vows. Well to vow to undertake the training of keeping a precept is a vow, but leaves room to try again if you for whatever reason slip up.

I have to agree that a living master can be very valuable and speed up your progress.
But in this day and age is not absolutely necessary. People have been know to find what the buddha talked about with little guidance. That is not to say that teachers don't have tremendous value if you're serious about walking the path...

With Love
Eelco

Can you give me an example of someone who has?
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  #7  
Old 21-02-2018, 04:39 PM
Eelco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Can you give me an example of someone who has?

Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk comes to mind.
There's a few more that claim liberation over on dharmaoverground.org..

Joseph Goldstein may be liberated. Unlike Daniel and Kenneth I never heard him make any claims about it though..

Culadasa (John Yates, Ph.D.) certainly seems to know what he is talking about.

The now deceased Bill Hamilton possibly.

Shinzen young perhaps?

In theravada it appears as if any meditation "teachers" are often sotopanna's(stream enterers) and even sakadagami or anagami..
Quite a few are deemed Arahant as well although claims about that is usually very hush hush under the lay people..

Also different schools seem to hang on to a different set of criteria in order to make such claims..

I for one was very pleased to find more attainable overviews of the territory of enlightenment after years of believing enlightenment is this monumental almost impossible task.. And the roadmap seems to me to be consistent with what the Buddha talked about in the Pali Canon.

Daniel Ingram wrote mastering the core teachings of the Buddha which I really like as an overview of the different possibilities when we talk about what attainments are and how they can be perceived.

With Love
Eelco
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  #8  
Old 22-02-2018, 03:56 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk comes to mind.
There's a few more that claim liberation over on dharmaoverground.org..

Joseph Goldstein may be liberated. Unlike Daniel and Kenneth I never heard him make any claims about it though..

Culadasa (John Yates, Ph.D.) certainly seems to know what he is talking about.

The now deceased Bill Hamilton possibly.

Shinzen young perhaps?

In theravada it appears as if any meditation "teachers" are often sotopanna's(stream enterers) and even sakadagami or anagami..
Quite a few are deemed Arahant as well although claims about that is usually very hush hush under the lay people..

Also different schools seem to hang on to a different set of criteria in order to make such claims..

I for one was very pleased to find more attainable overviews of the territory of enlightenment after years of believing enlightenment is this monumental almost impossible task.. And the roadmap seems to me to be consistent with what the Buddha talked about in the Pali Canon.

Daniel Ingram wrote mastering the core teachings of the Buddha which I really like as an overview of the different possibilities when we talk about what attainments are and how they can be perceived.

With Love
Eelco

I would have to say I don't think anyone of these people are liberated. I don't think any of them have reached the stage of an arhat, let alone that of a Buddha.
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  #9  
Old 22-02-2018, 04:02 PM
Eelco
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Me I don't know..

For my understanding their teachings appear genuine and freeing in a very attainable and practical sense. I didn't know the buddha so have no material to compare them with. I do know I have believed and search for the impossible for years and have to wonder how much of what I hoped for in enlightenment was fantasy..

May I ask who you consider enlightened?

With Love
Eelco
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  #10  
Old 22-02-2018, 04:11 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
Me I don't know..

For my understanding their teachings appear genuine and freeing in a very attainable and practical sense. I didn't know the buddha so have no material to compare them with. I do know I have believed and search for the impossible for years and have to wonder how much of what I hoped for in enlightenment was fantasy..

May I ask who you consider enlightened?

With Love
Eelco

None of the famous teachers that I have seen are what I would consider enlightened.

To me the true Dharma is the light. When one has realized the light they can share that light by their presence alone.

Not talking about empowerments either.

There are some advanced guys but not any real stuff going on. Just lots of talk.

Not even Dzogchen Master Norbu claims to be liberated.
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