Has anyone ever heard of this?

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Silver

If the highlighted statement is true, then there's really no point in asking anyone, is there? If all you do is collect other's opinions, and what you said that I highlighted is true, then they don't know any more than you do, so how is that going to help you? You're making a collection of opinions. Does that sound solid to you?

I'm not sure if you say "...billions of Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc." don't believe this "I" business, then where exactly are you getting it from? I'm confused about this.

You're biting off more than anyone could chew, sounds like.

Why is there no point asking anyone? I'm here to discuss ideas, beliefs, and to learn more about spirituality. But the more I learn the more I realise that I don't know. The subject is vast. But that does not mean I'm not interested.

Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, Pagans etc. do not believe in or practice I AM, or self realisation, or enlightenment, or universal consciousness, or inner I, or there are no others, or the mind deceives us....and so on. That is Eastern spirituality which Hindus and Buddhists and New Agers share. But it is not Western spirituality.

Western spirituality believes in a living breathing God. Not the "inner I".

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Honza

I could read the lecture that you provided but it would not create understanding.

I can guarantee that lecture will provide you with a deeper understanding of the question and topic. That said, your posts suggest your specific issue is with new age beliefs and esoteric ideas in general, which you attribute to eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism, philosophies which you appear to believe are inferior to Christianity. In one thread you even asked if we want to end up like India, the inference being there is something very wrong with eastern thought and with new age philosophy (and with India). And not just wrong, but something inherently evil and irrevocably damaging to western Christian society. Your extreme commitment to your religion and to your Christian beliefs is obvious, and I think the one thing we can agree on is that your reading an esoteric lecture isn't going to change this conversation, yes.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Baile

Every few months for years now you ask this same question.

Why not? There are always new people. Old threads have disappeared. New interests are awaken.

[markings]

Originally Posted by Honza

That God....in the form of Jesus.....came down from heaven to save us from the evil "I". To save us from being our own God and from thinking we are "IT".

That is how I always interpreted the bible. But it seems that I am alone in this interpretation. Everyone else seems to think they ARE actually "IT" and that we all are our own God!

I find "THE I" inherently abhorrent and evil. God is *much* nicer than "I" or "I AM". The "I" is cold, miserable and selfish compared to God.

Why does NO ONE else see it this way?

You are right in your interpretation. Where Christians run into trouble is that they believe there is an eternal core essence which somehow is "them".
We are not IT, because there is no we. That we are gods is a delusion on a grand scale.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Baile

I can guarantee that lecture will provide you with a deeper understanding of the question and topic. That said, your posts suggest your specific issue is with new age beliefs and esoteric ideas in general, which you attribute to eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism, philosophies which you appear to believe are inferior to Christianity. In one thread you even asked if we want to end up like India, the inference being there is something very wrong with eastern thought and with new age philosophy (and with India). And not just wrong, but something inherently evil and irrevocably damaging to western Christian society. Your extreme commitment to your religion and to your Christian beliefs is obvious, and I think the one thing we can agree on is that your reading an esoteric lecture isn't going to change this conversation, yes.

The thing is that you are just as committed to your beliefs as I am to mine. Since these two beliefs contradict each other we argue. Which is why I find the Eastern philosophy annoying. It says things like "I have no beliefs - this is the right path". At least I am aware that I have beliefs and that what I say is my opinion. The East states its understanding like it is THE TRUTH. Much like any other fundamental religion. At least I am aware that I do not speak TRUTH but only opinion.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by Honza

The thing is that you are just as committed to your beliefs as I am to mine. Since these two beliefs contradict each other we argue. Which is why I find the Eastern philosophy annoying. It says things like "I have no beliefs - this is the right path". At least I am aware that I have beliefs and that what I say is my opinion. The East states its understanding like it is THE TRUTH. Much like any other fundamental religion. At least I am aware that I do not speak TRUTH but only opinion.

You open your thread by saying what the others believe is "evil". How is that saying much good about your own beliefs? You're insulting them right up front. And given your last statement "At least I am aware that I do not speak TRUTH but only opinion," it appears you don't care if there's any deeper understanding to have about the opposition's beliefs or philosophy. If anyone wants to know more and have a deeper understanding, you have to separate wheat from chaff. Ignore and separate out those who bang on about this, that and the other. Just start out by listening with your own heart.

[Clear Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

That God....in the form of Jesus.....came down from heaven to save us from the evil "I". To save us from being our own God and from thinking we are "IT".

That is how I always interpreted the bible. But it seems that I am alone in this interpretation. Everyone else seems to think they ARE actually "IT" and that we all are our own God!

I find "THE I" inherently abhorrent and evil. God is *much* nicer than "I" or "I AM". The "I" is cold, miserable and selfish compared to God.

Why does NO ONE else see it this way?

This reminds me of a dream I had recently of the Great Swamp Turtle.

There was an elder figure who refused to grade, refused to judge, who told me "You are not Human-God."

The Great Swamp Turtle was in the dream, but first introduced it/himself to me in reality. That which tells us there is something more to spiritual depths, something greater beyond the reflection of the surface in which we see ourselves.

Ironically I think Jesus came to tell people both, though.

That there is a very close relational kinship between man and God, and none should suppress or deny that simple truth.

That the kings and rulers are not God, and that they should look up to God so that they can look around fairly and humbly in community with fellow humans of all ranks and types.

That we may aspire to great things, even miracles; and also that we are fragile and failable, and should forgive each other and not condemn, but also strive.

[Honza]

Originally Posted by Silver

You open your thread by saying what the others believe is "evil". How is that saying much good about your own beliefs? You're insulting them right up front. And given your last statement "At least I am aware that I do not speak TRUTH but only opinion," it appears you don't care if there's any deeper understanding to have about the opposition's beliefs or philosophy. If anyone wants to know more and have a deeper understanding, you have to separate wheat from chaff. Ignore and separate out those who bang on about this, that and the other. Just start out by listening with your own heart.

Carol; what I said was "I find 'THE I' inherently abhorrent and evil" - I'm entitled to how I feel about it. I said that God is *much* nicer than the "I". Again, I'm free to feel that way.

I'm explaining how I feel about the "I". To my horror I find that people worship the "I" as though it is God. I don't think any good can come from that.

[Honza]

My understanding is that there is much wrong with the world; it is full of evil. It is difficult to understand where this evil is coming from *until* you realise that calling yourself God is morally wrong. In my opinion. All the evil in the world comes from the fact that people believe themselves to be God. *That* is what the bible implies - I believe that Jesus came down from heaven to try and save us from such evil/madness. The bible warns of such things. I'm strictly in the "I'm not God" camp.

[Honza]

It is like the human race is deciding. Some of us claim "I Am God", while others claim "I Am not God". There will always be that division. Like left wing or right wing.