Anyone feels too an uneasiness about the Jesus Story ?

[Molearner]

It is painful to witness what I regard as wasted time discussing the minutia of Christianity and/or Jesus. The desire to dot every 't' and dot every 'i' will end in frustration and will be endlessly circuitous. In the meantime individual progress on the spiritual path will be sidetracked. If there is one thing that I wish believers and/or non-believers to remember about Jesus is that He said, "Ye must be born again". In other words, one must become spiritual. This is called Spiritual Forums so I am making the assumption that people who participate in these forums are interested in the spiritual life. There are many tracks that provide emphasis on the spiritual life and means of entry into the world of the Spirit. If Christianity does not provide this for anyone or if its umbrella seems too oppressive or shields one from the light then why obsess over it? Make it your goal and desire to progress spiritually with the emphasis on progress rather than spinning your wheels in indecision. If this means choosing another path or ignoring any and all paths and making your own path then pursue that course. Whatever path you choose......especially your own self-constructed path.....make yourself aware of the pitfalls of the ego.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Molearner

It is painful to witness what I regard as wasted time discussing the minutia of Christianity and/or Jesus. The desire to dot every 't' and dot every 'i' will end in frustration and will be endlessly circuitous. In the meantime individual progress on the spiritual path will be sidetracked. If there is one thing that I wish believers and/or non-believers to remember about Jesus is that He said, "Ye must be born again". In other words, one must become spiritual. This is called Spiritual Forums so I am making the assumption that people who participate in these forums are interested in the spiritual life. There are many tracks that provide emphasis on the spiritual life and means of entry into the world of the Spirit. If Christianity does not provide this for anyone or if its umbrella seems too oppressive or shields one from the light then why obsess over it? Make it your goal and desire to progress spiritually with the emphasis on progress rather than spinning your wheels in indecision. If this means choosing another path or ignoring any and all paths and making your own path then pursue that course. Whatever path you choose......especially your own self-constructed path.....make yourself aware of the pitfalls of the ego.

Good post. Yes, some people make you wonder why they joined a spiritual forum!

There is a lot more to the life of Jesus - his travels to the East for example. Interesting, but in terms of advancing anyone's soul, totally irrelevant!

The 'gold' is in the Message.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Good post. Yes, some people make you wonder why they joined a spiritual forum!

There is a lot more to the life of Jesus - his travels to the East for example. Interesting, but in terms of advancing anyone's soul, totally irrelevant!

The 'gold' is in the Message.

knightofalbion,

Thanks for your response. I have a favorite verse from the NIV translation......Jonah 2:8......."Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs". In the past I have equated 'idols' with meaning the ego. In this case, I would suggest 'idols' to mean our obsession with right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, etc......essentially our embracement of duality. It is my belief that spiritual progress is always made possible by acts of grace. To forfeit grace is to forfeit opportunities for spiritual progress. It is much like panning for gold....a metaphor that you used. Our eyes should be looking for the 'gold'(the Message) and focused on that. All else is distraction.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Molearner

knightofalbion,

Thanks for your response. I have a favorite verse from the NIV translation......Jonah 2:8......."Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs". In the past I have equated 'idols' with meaning the ego. In this case, I would suggest 'idols' to mean our obsession with right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, etc......essentially our embracement of duality. It is my belief that spiritual progress is always made possible by acts of grace. To forfeit grace is to forfeit opportunities for spiritual progress. It is much like panning for gold....a metaphor that you used. Our eyes should be looking for the 'gold'(the Message) and focused on that. All else is distraction.

Exactly! ....

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Zigzangle

It would appear that Jesus's family didn't rate him that highly!

.....and what makes you say that ?

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Molearner

It is painful to witness what I regard as wasted time discussing the minutia of Christianity and/or Jesus. The desire to dot every 't' and dot every 'i' will end in frustration and will be endlessly circuitous. In the meantime individual progress on the spiritual path will be sidetracked. If there is one thing that I wish believers and/or non-believers to remember about Jesus is that He said, "Ye must be born again". In other words, one must become spiritual. This is called Spiritual Forums so I am making the assumption that people who participate in these forums are interested in the spiritual life. There are many tracks that provide emphasis on the spiritual life and means of entry into the world of the Spirit. If Christianity does not provide this for anyone or if its umbrella seems too oppressive or shields one from the light then why obsess over it? Make it your goal and desire to progress spiritually with the emphasis on progress rather than spinning your wheels in indecision. If this means choosing another path or ignoring any and all paths and making your own path then pursue that course. Whatever path you choose......especially your own self-constructed path.....make yourself aware of the pitfalls of the ego.

If there is one thing I desire about the Bible it's to have the i and the t dotted. All of them. Up until now - and many decades have passed, I haven't noticed any signs of frustration or of going around in circles in myself.Nor have I ever been impressed with 'ye must be born again' and all those statements which have no basis but which just appear out of thin air without any explanation.
I have reason to think that I am a 'spiritual' person but religion and vague promises don't really do anything for me. I fully believe that our universe, and maybe many others, has/have an intelligence; a natural intelligence that doesn't preach and set moral 'standards', (among other things).
Had Jesus told us something which would have saved a lot of future suffering and shown a grasp of 'earthly' things it would have helped. He could have told us for example that the Earth goes round the Sun, the Church would have believed it (maybe) and a lot of people wouldn't have been burned, drawn and quartered. However he chose to devote about a total of twenty-four hours of a life of 33 years to do a couple of things which clearly deny the existence of physical laws and uttered a few parables each of which can be understood differently.

No, a clear and concise guide to life can't be found in the Bible nor in its well-dressed, God-praising church assemblies and congregations of arms-manufacturing, power-seeking and land-grabbing, environmental-damaging followers.


Most people have seen the 'truth' and that's why we are all going our own way. Each of us discovering through our own experiences and paths, helped by science and its need to know. We'll get there.

[Zigzangle]

Science hasn't yet discovered all there is to know about how everything came into being, it is a work in progress. In the days when the documents making up the Bible were written science wasn't a concept. It was therefore reasonable that the authors should speculate about how it all came about, hence the creation story. In the 21st century, when we have discovered so much about the universe and our planet, it seems odd that some should think it was a god wot dun it!

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Busby

Had Jesus told us something which would have saved a lot of future suffering and shown a grasp of 'earthly' things it would have helped. He could have told us for example that the Earth goes round the Sun, the Church would have believed it (maybe) and a lot of people wouldn't have been burned, drawn and quartered. However he chose to devote about a total of twenty-four hours of a life of 33 years to do a couple of things which clearly deny the existence of physical laws and uttered a few parables each of which can be understood differently.

No, a clear and concise guide to life can't be found in the Bible nor in its well-dressed, God-praising church assemblies and congregations of arms-manufacturing, power-seeking and land-grabbing, environmental-damaging followers.


Most people have seen the 'truth' and that's why we are all going our own way. Each of us discovering through our own experiences and paths, helped by science and its need to know. We'll get there.

Busby,

Interesting. And good to hear that you are following your own path which I encouraged people to do. I can perceive that you believe Jesus would have been more helpful if He would have been a scientist. I must point out that the advances in science have been enormous since the time of Jesus. The fact that we now know that the earth goes around the sun apparently has little effect on human violence which you suggested would not have occurred if this fact would have been known. Science has been helpful in the material progress of the world but, as you know, this 'progress' has also facilitated our capacity for annihilation(weapons, gas chambers, nuclear weapons, etc.). The list is endless including genetic engineering, social media, etc.

IMO, the flaw in reliance on science to contribute to spiritual progress is that it demands our dependence on OTHERS........i.e. scientists, people of superior intelligence, those who live in favorable circumstances. Genuine spirituality is built on the premise that we are all created equal(that each of us is endowed with the Divine spark). Spirituality informs us that each of us can access the spiritual world directly and personally without an intermediary(such as a scientist). Spirituality is not based on knowledge(science) but rather on experience and revelation from a divine source(not science). Science can inform but, so far, have proven incapable of changing the heart or creating love.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Busby,

Interesting. And good to hear that you are following your own path which I encouraged people to do. I can perceive that you believe Jesus would have been more helpful if He would have been a scientist. I must point out that the advances in science have been enormous since the time of Jesus. The fact that we now know that the earth goes around the sun apparently has little effect on human violence which you suggested would not have occurred if this fact would have been known. Science has been helpful in the material progress of the world but, as you know, this 'progress' has also facilitated our capacity for annihilation(weapons, gas chambers, nuclear weapons, etc.). The list is endless including genetic engineering, social media, etc.

IMO, the flaw in reliance on science to contribute to spiritual progress is that it demands our dependence on OTHERS........i.e. scientists, people of superior intelligence, those who live in favorable circumstances. Genuine spirituality is built on the premise that we are all created equal(that each of us is endowed with the Divine spark). Spirituality informs us that each of us can access the spiritual world directly and personally without an intermediary(such as a scientist). Spirituality is not based on knowledge(science) but rather on experience and revelation from a divine source(not science). Science can inform but, so far, have proven incapable of changing the heart or creating love.

Well, let's face it, a little information to show us over the following 2000 years that his knowledge wasn't restricted to sheep farming and carpentry would have helped a lot of people to believe that he knew what he was talking about - being the incumbent of divine knowledge. And, just to say, he could have least have married and had children instead of traipsing around with twelve men. That would have helped s o m e people.

Anyway, I personally have no difficulty in following 'my path' and belief in a universal intelligence without living in sackcloth and ashes. (Although that would be my wish for those who are intent upon spreading 'the good word').
Only science and our own interaction with the same will lead us into the real secrets of the universe. This is already taking place and we are slowly starting to consider a god who, to keep it simple, gives us the opportunity to experience a state of awareness which depends upon our own actions.

We call it life.

[Amilius777]

Hey Still_Waters

Thank you for enjoying my posts! I try my best to make sense of what makes sense to my own experience or at least I try to lol.

I think there are legends that Jesus travelled to many other countries to learn different spiritual traditions before he was ready to announce to his People that he was the Christ. Jesus also learned under the Essenes which blended a Buddhist-Hindu teaching to Judaism.

But I don't believe Jesus went to these other countries to learn what he didn't know. He mainly went to shape his teachings and what he already knew and was simply remembering it. Jesus also taught to people of other countries. What a lot of these mentors and teachers did was to help him balance his humanity and divinity. I don't think all of them recognized What was templed within him (the fullness of the Holy Spirit) which made him equal to God. They helped him find a balance to go in and out of each state. Despite what a lot of Modern Mystics say, Jesus was born divine. A lot of people have put their own Agenda on the story by trying to make him into an ordinary truth seeker or just a Man who became self-realized. It just isn't true! No mystic or yogi has ever spoken or did the things Jesus performed and enacted out of love for others. These Spiritual Teachers talk about this stuff like Eckart Tolle but they don't do the things this Man did! It's just a fact and I get annoyed when I see so many people push what makes them feel comfortable.

The story of Jesus isn't suppose to be comfortable. Jesus wasn't just another something. In some sense as a human being, a Soul learning and evolving in his human life as Jesus was just another spiritual master or mystic. Yet there was another side of Jesus' being which was Divine and could access all the spiritual knowledge and energy of God within himself when he had to. But he only allowed that Divine Nature to manifest through him when his human nature was completely aligned with the Will of the Highest Power. He taught us that to access our own divinity was to become fully and completely Human. Jesus was the first Human being who lived on Earth. He lived life as a Human in it's fullest because he put full trust and faith in the Divine Itself. That is why he is called "the second Adam" or the "new Adam". He is the real Adam. The first Adam was just a historical earthly thing that really has no meaning because we are not earthly beings. We are spiritual beings having an earthly experience. Jesus is the new Father of the human race. Isaiah - "Everlasting Father, God counselor".

EDIT-

I had to simplify this. Jesus and Christ are two different realities united in one human person. It was a unique event that God has only done for the human race since we are part of a special mission and purpose in the Universe. There are other walks of intelligent life with other sets of rules and karmic history. Christ is the aspect of that Energy we call God which is God-manifested. God the Father is only known in the Son because the Son is the Form of the Father. God told Moses in the bush- "I am who I am". This means God the Father is formless Love Itself. Yet God spoke from the burning bush which did not burn the bush nor did the bush overpower the fire. The burning bush was to get through Moses' head (excuse the pun) that the bush was his own mind enlightened. When a teacher or master of spirituality or any person becomes enlightened like the Buddha they become enlightened by the grace of God. It isn't so much a self-effort. It happens unto someone for karmic reasons we do not fully know. But the person never loses their individuality, they merge with the Holy Spirit and can identify with the "collective consciousness of God and Man". This collective- Corporate Body of God which includes all our souls like cells in a body is called "the Christ". We are all souls but we are also interconnected in one Being, one Body- "the Son of God". Everyone of us is an icon or an incarnation of the God-forces but there is a difference between us and Jesus.

Jesus was born and made perfect. In him was the fullness of the divine (the Christ) and the fullness of human (a soul). God had taken Form as the whole universe. That is the Word in the beginning. The Father manifested as the universal Form are the cosmos or whatever is visual and personal. Yet the human race was gifted with a unique ability. We could become co-creators, co-redeemers, co-workers with God on Earth. In Jesus, the Father manifested a personal Form for us to fall in love with. Jesus was born simultaneously- fully aware of his divinity as the Christ (identity with the corporate Body of God)and fully free as an individual soul (Son of Man). In Jesus the "Divine Energy was templed, made personal". And Jesus could accept or reject his mission, his purpose. But he didn't. Instead he embraced his mission and learned how to balance the two sides of his being while in Matter, and overcame every trial, test, and temptation a person must face in order to become Love. He became even more perfected through his obedience to the Divine and putting full faith and trust in Love.

Anytime you meditate on the "Incarnation", you are basically trying to understand how the divine also manifests in you as the Holy Spirit. The Incarnation was more than just a person born 2,000 years ago. Jesus was an event, an Advent of God in time and space. It was a power that burst into our 3-dimensional limited experience and brought a new understanding of what God or Love is. Before the trial among the Sanhedrin who thought they were in such favor with God were in fact so distant and separated from God that they even condemned and put on trial the very Presence of God in physical form. How crazy is that at a time in our history the totality of Divinity was seen through and in a single person and yet he was rejected and told to get lost. It is what we do to ourselves within everyday that is unfortunate.