Sathya Sai Baba, the Man = Human; All Human Avatars are HUMAN

...AND essentially Divine, as ALL beings equally are.

Those who ignorantly put other human beings above others, putting them upon pedestals and elevating them above "normal" humans, such as the case with claiming that Sathya Sai Baba is not human, but an "avatar" of God who "came down" to Earth, and who cannot make error, obviously haven't studied the actual teachings of such "avatars"!

Sathya Sai Baba, the man himself, has stated this:

God is not to be spoken of as coming down or going up, since HE is everywhere.

(http://www.saibaba.ws/quotes/108quotes.htm)

Unless you are of a similar consciousness as Sathya Sai Baba or Mother Meera or Jesus, you cannot understand their actual teachings and will IGNORE those very statements they make that CLEARLY show that they taught that all humans are EQUALLY God. The only apparent "difference" between a Sathya Sai Baba and a so-called "ordinary human being" is that the former is VERY CLEAR of his Divinity, while the latter is very doubtful of it. That's it, folks! And even that is an illusion, according to the very teachings about the nature of maya that these "avatars" give.

For the "avatar groupies," answer this question, if you will:

Since you place yourselves "below" such "avatars," how on Earth could you ever understand their True Nature (which is YOUR True Nature as well), their teachings, since you obviously believe you are human and they are non-human? According to your own flawed logic you CANNOT understand what an avatar really is, since it is a universal law that "It takes one to know one," as the old saying goes. So, how is it that you are so "right" and so sure about yourselves that these avatars are so special and you aren't? You are preaching a philosophy of hatred in your erroneous beliefs of avatars that are "above" others and normal humans that are "below."

Remember what Sathya Sai Baba said himself:

God is not to be spoken of as coming down or going up, since HE is everywhere.

What part of "everywhere" (omnipresent) do you not understand? The avatar groupie mentality is actually the mentality of most humans around the world, who believe so much in a "caste" system (AKA hierarchical thinking, pyramidal thinking). The caste system is worldwide! It is not just in India. It was never really outlawed anywhere, for most humans still believe so much in "higher" and "lower," which is exactly what those like Jesus and Sathya Sai Baba warned against, which is egoic thinking that continues to promote fear, hatred, separation and ignorance.

Understand that when such "enlightened" people make statements such as, "No man comes to the Father except through me" (which is actually a scholarly translation of something that Jesus is *believed* to have said), that it was not the consciousness of "Jesus-the-man" that says such a thing, but rather it is the Christ Mind, the Christ Consciousness that was speaking THROUGH the man. The "Me" of that statement is not Jesus, but it refers to the Holy Spirit, the Higher Self, yet this is what billions of people must learn about such "avatars." They are not to be seen as "better" than anyone else, yet this is exactly the hateful attitude that humanity must awaken from, with its worship of "authority figures." NO man or woman is a true guru, a true avatar, but rather it is the UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS that metaphorically "comes down" to the Earth vibration to incarnate. Of course Jesus was a HUMAN, just as Sai Baba. They looked like men, behaved like men, and "wore" human bodies just like ALL human incarnations of the God-Soul. They slept, ate, made mistakes, sometimes became angry, pooped, had some sexual desire, played video games (well, the soul's "video game" called "Life On Planet Earth" ), were often very happy, and experienced various emotions just like ALL humans do.

Sathya Sai Baba himself taught that the True Guru, the Satguru, is one's own Higher Self, their own Inner Being. In fact, ALL of those "avatars" that the Avatar Fan Club worship teach this, yet their self-proclaimed "followers" mostly continue to remain deaf and blind to these teachings, preferring to stay in their little boxes of labels and separation, while in their minds placing such people "above" themselves and others. This is ignorance, plain and simple. This is not reverence. It is idol worship, which is the OPPOSITE of what those like Sai Baba taught/teaches.

Understand also that those like Sathya Sai Baba have, as far as the illusion of reincarnation goes, often lived a series of "consecutive" lifetimes in which they were "self-realized," and thus have come to be at peace with the fact that millions of people will feel powerfully magnetically drawn to them, and they do not wish to fight against this (as Jiddu Krishnamurti often did), for they let people believe what they want to believe, even if it includes misguided guru worship. (Remember, the TRUE guru is WITHIN YOU.) Yes, your Inner Guru may lead you to a certain figure such as Jesus, Buddha, Ramana Maharshi or Ammachi, but this does not mean that the "outer" figure is your "guru." It is wiser to see ALL beings, human and non-human alike, as your "guru," even those you don't like, rather than pick and choose among certain humans for those you label as special.

For the guru-worshippers, I gently yet emphatically say, "WAKE UP!" Perhaps you may taste a bit of the Unconditional Awareness that I speak of--and speak FROM, here. This state is not limited to such silly human labels and restrictive religious conditioning, AKA hypnosis, such as avatar worship. However, for those of you who continue to choose to see youselves as "less than" beings such as Jesus, you are free to continue such foolishness. Simply remember that he actually taught that the Kingdom of God is found EQUALLY in all, and there is numerous scriptural "evidence" for this, both in the Bible and much moreso in modern metaphysical masterpieces such as A Course in Miracles. You are gods, remember. This is so, no matter if you are aware of this or not. It is funny how so many of those who claim to know Jesus, Buddha, etc. actually do not follow the wisdom of their teachings!! Again, you must be of a mind like Buddha, for example, in order to "know" him. It takes One (Oneness) to know One (Oneness.). There is no escaping this fact. So, you contradict your own beliefs in special "avatars" and "gurus" when you claim that you are an "expert" on such people, or pretend to know what an "avatar" is (as some in this forum do), while ignoring the actual Sanskrit root meaning of the word.

The Avatar Fan Club has ITS definitions of what an avatar is (which is totally unorginal and simply copied from other "believers"), while I have MINE. Yet a number of members here foolishly attack any other definition of "avatar" that doesn't place these people above others. For such people, I never stated that YOUR definition of "avatar" was wrong, yet it is interesting how such proclaimed "followers" of such avatars or gurus immediately say that "Sourcerer" is wrong, while I am in fact using a VERY DIFFERENT DEFINITION of the word "avatar" in the first place! Actually, according to MY broad definition of "avatar" that I used in my other Hinduism thread, I am "100% correct," because I defined it according to the root Sanskrit definition, which means "descent," in this case "one who has descended." This is not YOUR definition. So why do you (referring to those who said I was wrong) say that I am "wrong," in whatever way it was stated, instead of wisely acknowledging that I was actually speaking of a DIFFERENT SUBJECT than the most-prevelent Hindu concept of "avatar"? MY definition was the very broad, general, all-inclusive version of "avatar" that those students/teachers of "hardcore" Advaita Vedanta non-dualist systems of thought understand. It was not the "caste version" of avatar that places certain special people above others, claiming them to be "non-human," which is utter non-sense. Yes, our True Nature is non-human, but the human body-mind persona is obviously human, whether you are Sathya Sai Baba or Saddam Hussein; all are both equally human AND, on a soul level, equally Divine, period, whether one is "self-realized" or not.

I advise those who place others upon a special pedestal to actually READ and COMPREHEND before you respond, instead of claiming your brothers and sisters to be "wrong" in their beliefs, when in fact they may be using a very different definition/school of thought than you. I may state that a belief is "erroneous," meaning it doesn't point to the Truth of Oneness (such as the most-popular "avatar" belief, which perpetuates division and the egoic caste system), but I will never state that a PERSON is wrong for having such a belief.

God is not to be spoken of as coming down or going up, since HE is everywhere.

(And these "special avatars" make NUMEROUS statements to this effect, for those who actually READ and LISTEN. There is no "direct descent" of God-In-Totality. Totality is Infinite and Omnipresent! It doesn't actually "descend" nor even move (except in the illusion). It simply IS.)

This is not a reference to "Sai Baba the Man," but rather to GOD ITSELF, the Parabrahman, the Source, the Absolute, and not to a human appearance of a short man with an afro who often wore orange robes, the latter of which is a projection of maya, an illusion, as Sathya Sai Baba himself taught! Understand the difference. Know the difference between speaking lovingly of someone and giving them praise, as opposed to placing such a person above all others and foolishly believing them to be God Itself, while seeing all other projections of consciousness as "less than God." If you know ANYTHING about the True Nature of Consciousness, you would know that all projections are EQUAL. All are equally illusions, and all are equally Divine in their Essence.

Yes, people such as Sai Baba and Jesus may occasionally even mention another saint or sage, and speak of him/her with much reverence and respect, but in actually the reverence is directed to the Divine God-Essence, and NOT to the illusory *appearance* that was spoken of. It is not reverence of the body, although the body and mind are seen as unified within God. Know the difference! Avatar worship is tail-chasing, for it continually revolves and circulates around a negative premise of perceiving one (or more) as "special" to God in a way that is "better-than" and "greater" in relationship to "unenlightened" or "normal" or "average" people. What foolishness!

For those with ears to hear...
~To All, Blessings~

[Miss Hepburn]

Sooo, you used to follow Sai Baba or a close personal 'friend' did?

I only wanted to say I thought the 'preaching a philosophy of hatred' was
strong...but whatdoi know...

[Amilius777]

I am so glad I live a life where it's just me and my Source (Father/Mother).

Avatars, God-men, Messiahs, Prophets can all go home.

Besides isn't Saytha Sai Baba the one who lived in royal palaces, has hundreds of sex scandals, corruption, and murder surrounding his life?

I don't remember Jesus living in palaces and being the head of anything, nor claiming to be an avatar. I don't see it in Buddha, Mother Theresa, or Saint Francis.

Weird. Maybe Saytha Sai Baba is just the greatest of them all

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Sooo, you used to follow Sai Baba or a close personal 'friend' did?

I only wanted to say I thought the 'preaching a philosophy of hatred' was
strong...but whatdoi know...

I have long resonated positively with Sathya Sai Baba, but I was/am not a "follower" of his in a traditional sense, although I AM a follower of the Divine Truth that he represents.

Yes, true, it was intended as a strong statement, in the same vein that the "voice" in A Course in Miracles gives similar strong statements about the games of the ego. For those who receptive enough to perceive it, the philosophy of separation preached by "avatar-worshippers" that I specifically speak of is a negative philosophy. However, I am not saying that this is the only philosophy they believe in, for I recognize that they also believe in love as well, which is essentially why they are drawn to such loving examples as Jesus and Sai Baba. I referred specifically to the caste/hierarchical beliefs such people have of strongly separating certain "special" avatars from "mere mortals"--that negative philosophy--as being hate-based, fear-based, which it obviously is from an enlightened viewpoint. It was a strong statement, and its strength comes from the Holy Spirit.

...but whatdoi know...

You are Pure Divine Knowledge Itself.

Originally Posted by Amilius777

I am so glad I live a life where it's just me and my Source (Father/Mother).

Avatars, God-men, Messiahs, Prophets can all go home.

Besides isn't Saytha Sai Baba the one who lived in royal palaces, has hundreds of sex scandals, corruption, and murder surrounding his life?

I don't remember Jesus living in palaces and being the head of anything, nor claiming to be an avatar. I don't see it in Buddha, Mother Theresa, or Saint Francis.

Weird. Maybe Saytha Sai Baba is just the greatest of them all

Sathya Sai Baba didn't live in a royal palace in a manner such as say, a king or the Catholic pope. Living in a "palace" doesn't have anything in itself to do with one's message and living example... There were only few who made such negative claims about him, not "hundreds," and these claims and scandals do not obscure the fact that he has tremendously helped India and the world through many decades of compassionate service to humanity, helping raise over three billion dollars worth of charities. His "palace" was/is home to many, from many walks of life, and he didn't keep any of the money that he raised for himself.

In the case of Jesus, although he never actually claimed himself an avatar in the egoic sense that some spiritual teachers do--as you know, most people who claim to believe in him put him in such a special category, believing him to be "the" sole Son of God, as well as God in manifest form, the same basic definition of "avatar" that the avatar-worshippers use.

I am so glad I live a life where it's just me and my Source (Father/Mother).

Excellent attitude, my friend. Indeed, each "me" is a wave in the Infinite Ocean of God-Source.

[charly233]

For me the avatars are simply preaching the message that "ye are Gods", that everyone is god. As it says in Islam "he who knows himself knows Allah".

The avatars may realize their god nature with greater clarity than others. But essentially we are all God/Goddess.

There seem to be growing numbers in this day and age who declare themselves to be God. Quite a few are to be found around this SF forum it seems.

Originally Posted by charly233

There seem to be growing numbers in this day and age who declare themselves to be God. Quite a few are to be found around this SF forum it seems.

Indeed. Quite worrying! How many gods are there?

I believe we have a spark of the divine in us but that we are just human beings - subject to human error.

Nothing like humility to put things into perspective, huh?

[Arcturus]

i watched a few vids of his. never did i hear any teaching so lost interest. are there any good excerpts of what the man actually said, in his role as teacher, so that i can find out if he has anything worth saying?

Originally Posted by amy green

I believe we have a spark of the divine in us but that we are just human beings - subject to human error.
Nothing like humility to put things into perspective, huh?

Oh! Yeah, I am God -

to my favorite pet, that is. Just kidding.

Indeed. Quite worrying! How many gods are there?

I'm in favor of the One/Oneness and the aforementioned spark of divine.

Sathya Sai Baba was great,
but I never would have worshipped him.
In fact, I think-if I joined his followers, we would have come to some point of disagreement with some of the teachings, culturally, traditionally, with the deities, etc.
I am pretty sure there isn't a shortage of people who doesn't believe that he is an avatar, rather quite a few would even say he is of the devil,
just like how mediumship is viewed as thus.

Originally Posted by amy green

I believe we have a spark of the divine in us but that we are just human beings...

Obvious contradiction!

Which is it? Are we humans with a "spark of the divine in us" or are we "just human beings?" You gave two different statements, and are trying to reconcile them in your personal philosophy. No wonder the confusion.

Anything that is "just human" is limited to the physical senses, yet what I just said actually makes no sense, for there is no such reality as "just human." You and I both know that this is true, as the ridiculous "just human" hypothesis has been shot to smithereens by both mystics and quantum physicists, and you would be "more accurate" in saying "We are just energy," and even better in realizing that we are "just Pure Consciousness." (And when I said "we" there, I am not talking about the illusory body-minds of "Amy" and "Sourcerer," but the actual Essence that has apparently taken on human form.)

Even "a spark of the divine" is inaccurate, for what about the physical body and the mind? Isn't the body and the mind both composed of the SAME ESSENCE as that so-called inner "spark?" Of course! Our ENTIRE ESSENCE--body, mind, everything--is essentially Divine. What you and most humans perceive as "just human" is merely a highly-limited interpretation of Divine Essence based on the physical senses, when in truth this "just human" IS actually Divine Essence. Remove the blinders, my friend.

As for me, when I say "human," I actually do not distinguish between it and God, for I KNOW that all *things* are made of the same Infinite Essence. "Human" is an illusory MIND-INTERPRETATION of Source, while God-Source Itself is NOT an interpretation. Even dear Tolle, whom you love, realizes what I speak of here...