Abide As The Self - Ramana Maharishi

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by django

...........

What do those lines mean? presumably they mean how can one tell if one doesn't need to speak about the Self because they are the Self?

This thread is full of projection...I should set up a screen and bring out the popcorn.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Yes, that quote by Rumi is perhaps my favourite one. <3

Yes, 'Abide as the Self' which often, as Ramana Maharishi himself states, means to observe total mouna - that is both inner and outer silence in light of this awareness...only to have others ask 'what miracle can you perform for me today?' but if they cannot see the Elephant in the first place, how can they tell if it has entered the room?

Then of course, you can ask "Who am I?" and get "Who is asking who am I?" and receive the answer "I am God" and know this to be 100% true...and thus 'abide as God' only to have another quote Jesus Christ who says "the way to the Father is through Me" and for me to say "hang on there...I thought I already was the Father, Son and Holy Spirit here" and they go "nope, you're delusional".

The question who am I It isn't going to produce any further question. or provide an answer; it is only asked to draw the attention back upon the self.

It seems that people make this more complicated than it needs to be...and yes, I've read that book...but now, I'm off to read this one...as if I actually, really need to:



...and see if I can find a commonality between both texts....but maybe it can be found here:



Suffice to say, some people (not necessarily your kind self) should learn how to swim before plunging themselves in at the 'deep end'.

Om Namah Shivaya

I think there is a lot of merit in beginning with a meditation practice that promotes mindful equanimity. If this would be a spiritual discussion, the participants would already be in that practice of alert quietude, rather in a reactive mental condition.

[Gem]

Papaji teaches Ramama's the self inquiry tradition, so I thought this video relates to Shivani's words:" It seems that people make this more complicated than it needs to be".

Papaji: It's so Simple https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZhCk6sieMA

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

The question who am I It isn't going to produce any further question. or provide an answer; it is only asked to draw the attention back upon the self.



I think there is a lot of merit in beginning with a meditation practice that promotes mindful equanimity. If this would be a spiritual discussion, the participants would already be in that practice of alert quietude, rather in a reactive mental condition.

Agreed, but maybe a lot can also be said for trying to converse logically with another, without emotion ever getting involved in the conversation whatsoever.

When one is speaking from focused, one-pointed awareness and the other is speaking from a reactionary bias to that awareness, what point is there in even continuing the conversation?

I shall hazard a guess that this is the main reason why sadhus seclude themselves in caves all their lives, refuse to associate with another living being and let their light be self-evident.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Agreed, but maybe a lot can be said for trying to converse logically with another, without emotion ever getting involved in it whatsoever.

When one is speaking from one-focused, pointed awareness and the other is speaking from reactionary bias to that awareness, what point is there in even continuing the conversation?

I shall hazard a guess that this is the main reason why sadhus seclude themselves in caves all their lives, refuse to associate with another living being and let their light be self-evident.

Om Namah Shivaya

Indeed, a quiet mind is basically affectionate in that nothing is agitating it into adverse mental states.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

Indeed, a quiet mind is basically affectionate in that nothing is agitating it into adverse mental states.

Conversely, a quiet mind is also basically ambivalent in that people will set themselves on fire and you're the one handing out marshmallows.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Conversely, a quiet mind is also basically ambivalent in that people will set themselves on fire and you're the one handing out marshmallows.

We tend toward caring, sensitivity and compassion in the absence of personal reactivity, and toward hurtfulness and harm when the mind goes wild - though I state the obvious.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Gem

We tend toward caring, sensitivity and compassion in the absence of personal reactivity, and toward hurtfulness and harm when the mind goes wild - though I state the obvious.

Namaste.

It's difficult for me to explain this, or even attempt to 'go there'.

'Mental agitation' is basically caused by you giving your own 'personal power' away to others and this goes beyond the whole ego concept of being 'powerful' or 'superior' or whatnot. It is a spiritual power.

You see how people will play 'poke the bear' with those who are said to be 'holy' or 'spiritual' just to get a rise out of them...and then they'll go "AHA! so much for your 'holiness' or 'spirituality'...see, I was RIGHT...and I love being RIGHT...oh yes, yes I do...watch my little victory dance...watch it!"

They either do that, or they are like; "that person is a fake and a fraud...aren't they, other people? I speak on behalf of the whole WORLD when I say that God doesn't exist because He can't be proven...and you are also stupid if you don't agree with me...watch me appeal to your sense of self-confidence...and slowly erode it all away, so you'll agree with everything I say...watch it!"

Then, when you ignore them because you can see what they are up to, or you say stuff like 'and how is YOUR life working for you?' and do a Dr. Phil...or just go like this:



...then they get mad...they start fuming and fussing because what they are doing isn't working on me...and then they start screaming abuse...and I can only laugh...and the madder they get, the more I laugh...because I find it totally hilarious.

Then, after reading all those comments on Youtube last night, people using bad words like 'gay fag' as an insult, telling others to 'F' off' simply because they don't like what they choose to watch...how did human intelligence ever GET to this point, my friend?

It's so difficult for me to feel affection and compassion when I see people laying on a bed of nails and they wonder why they cannot get a good night's sleep.

If a 'spiritual person' is able to love a mass murderer...or a person like Hitler...then I shall take my hat off, bow to them and give up the spiritual life myself.

Om Namah Shivaya

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Namaste.

It's difficult for me to explain what I am about to even attempt to 'go there'.

'Mental Agitation' is basically caused by you giving your own 'kpersonal power' away to others and this goes beyond the whole ego concept of being 'powerful' or 'superior' or whatnot.

You see how people will play 'poke the bear' with those who are said to be 'holy' or 'spiritual' just to get a rise out of them...and then they go "AHA! so much for your 'holiness' or 'spirituality'...see, I was RIGHT...and I love to be RIGHT...oh yes, yes I do...watch my little victory dance...watch it!"

They either do that, or they are like; "that person is a fake and a fraud...aren't they, other people? I mean, I speak on behalf of the whole WORLD when I say that God doesn't exist because He can't be proven...and you are also stupid if you don't agree with me...watch me appeal to your sense of self-confidence...and slowly erode it so you will agree with everything I say...watch it!"

Then, when you ignore them because you can see what they are up to, or you say stuff like 'and how is YOUR life working for you?' and do a Dr. Phil...or I just go like this:

[IMG]http://memecrunch.com/meme/BH73Z/slow-clap/image.gif[/IMG

...and then they get mad...they start fuming and fussing because what they are doing isn't working on me...and then they start screaming abuse...and I can only laugh...and the madder they get, the more I laugh...because I find it totally hilarious.

Then, after reading all those comments on Youtube last night, people using comments like 'gay fag' as an insult, telling others to 'F' off' simply because they don't like what they choose to watch...how did human intelligence ever GET to this point, my friend?

It's so difficult for me to feel affection and compassion when I see people laying on a bed of nails and they wonder why they cannot get a good night's sleep.

If a 'spiritual person' is able to love a mass murderer...or a person like Hitler...then I shall take my hat off, bow to them and give up the spiritual life myself.

Om Namah Shivaya

Why do you think it's difficult SD to love a ' mass murderer ' ?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why do you think it's difficult DS to love a ' mass murderer ' ?

Because they are totally ignoring their own divine nature and are so self-centred, that they try and convince others to be the same.

I guess I just have this thing about 'human ignorance' and 'human stupidity' and a lack of basic, fundamental consideration due to selfishness...like failing to give up a seat on a bus for an elderly/pregnant woman...letting a door slam shut in the face of somebody behind them...walking backwards in a shopping mall or coming to an abrupt halt and causing a collision...running to an ATM to get in first when they see you are on your way there...littering a beautiful council park with old matresses, broken bikes and household junk...parking in a disabled car park without a permit or parking in your driveway and vanishing for the day...placing you on waiting lists for 5-6 years because you can't afford private insurance, trying to undermine your worth as a person due to their own insecurities, stealing your garbage bins from the pick-up point if you don't wait there for the truck to empty them and collect them...I could go on all night, my friend...ALL NIGHT!

And THIS is why I hate human beings and cannot feel any compassion whatsoever...it is an unknown emotion to me.

Om Namah Shivaya